.22 vs .45 for defense

[Ken Ford]

It should be a word!

I tried Googling it, got a lot of articles but couldn't find the study. I'll keep digging for it.

EDIT: Duh... he actually had the link in the video. Study can be found here --> http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

I've looked at that "study" before and I still have a difficult time understanding where he got the exact specifics from LE/Coroner reports to get the results. The specifics he relates are not compiled anywhere from police reports that I know of. And he would have had to had a "master list" of shootings (again not compiled as far as I know) and requested all those reports individually under the freedom of information act, from hundreds of separate LEO agencys. He would have had to pay for each page of each report, I did not get the feeling that his study had any outside funding.

Then again he may be rich and have a lot of time on his hands, what do I know?

 

[cullen1780]

Interesting summary:

All handguns suck! If you want to stop someone, use a rifle or shotgun!

What matters even more than caliber is shot placement. Across all calibers, if you break down the incapacitations based on where the bullet hit you will see some useful information.

Head shots = 75% immediate incapacitation
Torso shots = 41% immediate incapacitation
Extremity shots (arms and legs) = 14% immediate incapacitation.

No matter which caliber you use, you have to hit something important in order to stop someone!

It should be a word!

I tried Googling it, got a lot of articles but couldn't find the study. I'll keep digging for it.

EDIT: Duh... he actually had the link in the video. Study can be found here --> http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

 

[Kain8719]

That made my head hurt a little. His that had enough holes in it, not pun intended, for me to be to able to write term paper on. I've seen study as well (http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866) and it itself isn't that scientific and I would not basis my choice of defensive loading on because it also has holes big enough to drive a semi through in his methodology. But most damning, read the study and the finding of the study don't back up what the idiot in the video is preaching.

"The lower caliber rounds (.22, .25, .32) had a failure rate that was roughly double that of the higher caliber rounds. The one-shot-stop percentage (where I considered all hits, anywhere on the body) trended generally higher as the round gets more powerful. This tells us a couple of things..."

"Now compare the numbers of the handgun calibers with the numbers generated by the rifles and shotguns. For me there really isn't a stopping power debate. All handguns suck! If you want to stop someone, use a rifle or shotgun!" (Where is the shotgun king? Even in the report the shotgun had more failures to stop, a lower percentage of fatalities, and it tied rifle in one shot stops.)

And that is just me skimming the article he based his entire argument on, not even me starting to begin on why the .22lr is a poor choice for self defense, mainly the fact that it can have unreliable ignition, and the massad comment... You are taking a gun that they had for assassination and taking out sentries, it was not a combat arm.

I could continue, but it will just make me more angry at the idiot.

 

[04 rocko taco]

I havent read the study, but my first thought was when he said that a 10 yr study showsed the .380 and .22LR as the most effective rounds for self defense could also just be from saying, there were 1000 self defense shootings, and 750 of them were done with a .22 or .380. That doesnt ACTUALLY make them more succesful, just more plentiful, as I feel may ACTUALLY be the case as more women and new firearms owners choose weapons in smaller calibers for a myriad of reasons.

 

[Kain8719]

I havent read the study, but my first thought was when he said that a 10 yr study showsed the .380 and .22LR as the most effective rounds for self defense could also just be from saying, there were 1000 self defense shootings, and 750 of them were done with a .22 or .380. That doesnt ACTUALLY make them more succesful, just more plentiful, as I feel may ACTUALLY be the case as more women and new firearms owners choose weapons in smaller calibers for a myriad of reasons.

You are pretty much spot on. The numbers of shooting the rounds were involved in range from as little as 24 all the way over the 450 leaving a major issue of calibers being either over represented or under. Also the fact that rifle rounds of clumped together as well as .357 magnum and .357 Sig were were thrown together while .38 was given its own category and lets not forget it doesn't focus on only .22lr, its .22 long rifle, long and short. The study while well meaning is in my opinion useless for anything more then a read since it doesn't give a worthwhile break down of what type of round was used along with the numerous other issues in the study.

 

[83rdrecon]

Shot placement trumps caliber size everytime....

 

[83rdrecon]

You are pretty much spot on. The numbers of shooting the rounds were involved in range from as little as 24 all the way over the 450 leaving a major issue of calibers being either over represented or under. Also the fact that rifle rounds of clumped together as well as .357 magnum and .357 Sig were were thrown together while .38 was given its own category and lets not forget it doesn't focus on only .22lr, its .22 long rifle, long and short. The study while well meaning is in my opinion useless for anything more then a read since it doesn't give a worthwhile break down of what type of round was used along with the numerous other issues in the study.

However the common denominator is still the same. All handgun rounds are marginal and equally effective if the shot placement is right. Shot placement trumps caliber size everytime.

 

[83rdrecon]

I've looked at that "study" before and I still have a difficult time understanding where he got the exact specifics from LE/Coroner reports to get the results. The specifics he relates are not compiled anywhere from police reports that I know of. And he would have had to had a "master list" of shootings (again not compiled as far as I know) and requested all those reports individually under the freedom of information act, from hundreds of separate LEO agencys. He would have had to pay for each page of each report, I did not get the feeling that his study had any outside funding.

Then again he may be rich and have a lot of time on his hands, what do I know?

Ken, send him an email. I can forward you his address via pm. He is an officer and I have him on my email list for officer safety info and firearms info.

 

[timbgtm]

I'm going to give that guy a lot of credit and assume he made that video for comic purpose and wasn't actually serious.

Probably..

 

[jwhited]

Um, can anyone say (and I know I'm going to get heat for this), "Zionist propaganda film."?

Oh, for sure. I was gonna watch another video on the site, but when that trailer came up again.. No thanks.