Thanks for the info on the XS big bead, I think Im going to pick one up for my 1300.
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Ghost ring or bead sight?
- Thread starter DownSouthMach
- Start date
You will need to replace the bead on your 1300 with a #6 bead. You can pick them up from Brownells for around $3. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/sid=43330/pid=566/Product/_6_ALUM__REPLACEMENT_SHOTGUN_SIGHT__EA This is the correct size for a Remington bead. The size that XS uses. Replacing the bead on a shotgun is easy and since there are plenty of instructions on the internet on how to do it I will spare you another set of instructions. Once you have your new #6 bead in place you abrade the bottom of your XS sight, clean it up and epoxy your XS sight over the #6 bead with some JB weld. I have some XS sights that are a years old and have seen thousands of rounds. The JB weld holds the sight like..well like it was welded.
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This is the stance I'm talking about. We agree on everything except the part where you say you can't use this stance with a rifle. I also still recommend a slightly higher stock position, but the body position is exactly right.
Oh, I also disagree with the idea that ghost rings are slower. It all depends on the level of precision that's called for in the situation. Ghosts are just as fast when you don't need the precision, but then also give you the option of much more precise work when you need it. The only time they interfere with your vision is when you are shooting with the off eye closed, which you should never do in a tactical situation. I've seen Eric Lund out run the speed of his semi auto action using ghost rings and I can come close to doing the same.
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That's fine and well and if I were running and gunning in a three gun competition I would be running a semi and a more elaborate sighting system as well but at 3am in the dark, in my home, I really don't give a **** if Eric lund can run the speed out of his semi-auto Benelli M2 in competition. You are trying to convince me that ghost rings are just as fast as a bead and it is an argument you can't win because I own guns with all three sighting systems. Go take a course with Bill Jeans, Tom Givens, Clint Smith, or the local guy Bill Rogers.
You will quickly learn a few things that I learned, your stance sucks. Semis suck after forty-fifty rounds they stop working right (this crushed me because I love my Benelli M4 and 11-87). Ghost ring sights are slow compared to rifle sights. Rifle and ghost ring sights are slow compared to a bead and finally "man the bead is fast". Think about what is the most common round used in defense for a shotgun is. Buckshot. Slugs are used but rarely and for HD the ranges you are shooting you are still pinpoint accurate with the bead. Even at 50 yards you can be accurate with a bead. Slugs are a comprising round. You are compromising with your shotgun saying "Look, I know you are a shotgun but I want you to perform like a rifle for a second". The thing is it isn't a rifle and putting ghost ring sights on it isn't going to make it perform any better. Know your fight and equip accordingly. If you really want to shoot slugs and don't think you can do with it with a bead get a rifle sighted barrel. At least these sights are open and are pretty quick.
I strongly urge everyone here to take some level of tactical shotgun training if you plan on using one to defend your life or the life of your family. One course can give you a good base to build some good core fundamentals though like a knife we require constant sharpening. Fortunately here in Georgia we have some great shotgun instructors. Rogers School is just up the road in Ellijay. Bill Rogers is one of the top instructors in the world I have been privileged and honored to go up and take some classes there. His classes will teach you quickly why ghost ring sights are not the best option when you are shooting partially exposed targets that are only exposed .5 to .75 of a second in a close quarters environment. The stress pushes you, your weapon and your gear and exposes it's weaknesses. http://www.rogersshootingschool.com/index.php
It has been awhile since I have been out there but Joe Satterfield does instruction out at Creekside. The pricing out there was great and the level of instruction was solid. It wasn't as in-dept as Rogers but it also wasn't a multiday course either. It was a good course to get you started and Joe knows his stuff. http://www.creeksidefiringrange.com/training.html
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Whatever man. All I know is what I've known, taught and used in the real world. If your so much better off with nothing but a front bead and your accurate out to fifty yards with it, then why do you NEVER see someone trying to be effective in CQB with a sightless carbine. There are instructors out there that can teach you all kinds of different things, but when you look at the way real world operators use their equipment it's amazing how consistent it is. Maybe because they aren't playing at it. There life is on the line. Just as a side note, Eric was a special operations Fed before he was a competitor or weapons instructor. Anyway, everyone should do what works for them. My advice to the OP is to try it both ways before you buy a weapon. I'd be happy to let him use mine. I've got ones that can easily be adapted either way. I'll let you put about 250 flawless rounds through my semi to help you decide.
Edit: I just connected with your forum name.
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A bead is not a sightless gun. A bead would be the equivalent to using just the front sight only which again just about everyone knows is the fastest way to accurately get rounds down range in a close up engagement. This is why point shooting is so popular for defensive shooting in pistols. You do not need the rear sight because precision is just not as important inside 25 yards. Running a bead sight is more like running a red dot then running ghost right sights which are iron sights. Maybe your shotgun is loaded up with slugs for those 50 to 100 yard engagements. I don't know but mine is loaded with 00 buck and I have two slugs in the back cheek riser shell holder on my Urbino. Because my go-to shotgun is not a rifle. I have AR15's if I need a rifle. You look at the course requirement for just about every school in the country. Hundreds of rounds of shot, 10-20 rounds of slug. Typically about 30 minutes is spent talking about slugs and shooting slugs. A shotgun makes a poor choice for a rifle and about the only place you see people working shotguns like they are rifles is in competition and those guns are tricked out. Not off the rack defensive guns. They typically have Trijicon RMR's or Burris red dots mounted as well which makes the ghost ring-bead back and forth meaningless. I do agree with you though everyone should do what works for them. Really there is no perfect one size fits all anwser for anyone. Statistically bead sights are quicker but if you like them and they work for you **** it. It is your gun OP. Work the ghost rings. I will concede they do look cool. I really think that is why they caught on so quick years ago when they first came out because there was nothing wrong with rifle sights back then.
Your assumption that I like ghosts is because I use slugs most is wrong. I also load shot primarily. The ghost ring sight did not come onto the market because they were wanted by competitors. As you pointed out, most competitors use some type of electronic sight. They came out because of a need by operators. When I'm shooting fast and close with shot I don't even see the ring and I shoot it as if all it had was the front sight. That's why I loose no speed at all. Again, if you use it right there is no lose of ability to acquire the target. If you try to get a precise sight picture in CQB, you're doing wrong. However, having the ghost ring available virtually doubles your effective rang with the weapon and also gives you the ability to place a shot precisely at close range if you need to. Think hostage. When I am training a new shooter with a handgun I do transition them to point shooting as quickly as possible because I agree with this in close quarters work. But I'm certainly not going to suggest they don't need good quality sights on the weapon or ignore learning how to use them even though in true point shooting you don't use them at all. When used correctly ghost rings cost you nothing in application while dramatically increasing the weapon's capability.
Just so others know. Aimless and I have traded PMs to make sure we're not pissing each other off and we're not. This is just a lively debate. Credit goes to him for this level of courtesy because he is the one that initiated the PMs.
