Hello, I'm mtdawg169 and I'm a parts snob.

[Wallace's]

Hmmm. Interesting. I must have got a good one then. Anyway, are the tolerances not done by the forging process? If I have and upper, as an example, that was forged by the same company as say, a Colt upper, does that not make that upper forged with the same tolerances. I understand that the finish may not be the same but the quality of the forging should be, correct? Some don't really care that much how refined or finished an AR looks as long is it functions properly.


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Forgings only get the piece if aluminum into the rough shape. The final machining is where tolerances come into play and varies manufacturer to manufacturer.

Example: Both BCM and Palmetto State Armory source from Brass Aluminum Forging Enterprises (square forging marks), yet BCM machines theirs to a more precision fit, specifically in regards to the barrel receiver extension. PSA just has theirs machined to "good enough" specs.

This is what a blank forging looks like (note the cerro forging mark):

I dont want to speak for mtdawg169 , but your Anderson may run 5K, 10K, or maybe well over that with no problems. The issue lies in the product consistency. I would not expect a batch of 100 Anderson rifles to perform the same as a batch of 100 BCM, Colt, KAC, SOLGW, Sionics, etc....rifles.

Personally, I have seen anodizing variances on Anderson's large enough to require cleanup of many holes in the receivers due to the excessive buildup. I have also seen Andersons that were not even drilled for a bolt catch roll pin, and some that had the worst attempt at color consistency I have ever seen (Anodizing almost looked swirled with grey/black). All issues I have not seen or read about with BCM.

So, to your point, the forgings are the same, the end results (product) are not. I have put together an uncomfortable amount of Anderson parts for friends and they are by far, the poorest quality and most inconsistent of any of the more known manufacturers pumping out products currently IMHO.

 

[CQB27]

The critical dimensions are machined after the raw forging is made. And there are a ton of companies finish machine forgings.

This is a forging:

And I will add to this fine thread that many of the lower tier manufactures are more than willing to push out lowers/uppers that are clearly out of the acceptable tolerances that top tier manufactures cull from the herd during the QC/QA process. The result is out of spec mag wells, pivot/takedown holes, upper receiver lugs and on and on. This of course leads to the "I took some emery cloth and fixed my tight mag well" and "I just use a nylon hammer to tap my upper closed" threads.

Great thread OP.

 

[freedom]

Forgings only get the piece if aluminum into the rough shape. The final machining is where tolerances come into play and varies manufacturer to manufacturer.

Example: Both BCM and Palmetto State Armory source from Brass Aluminum Forging Enterprises (square forging marks), yet BCM machines theirs to a more precision fit, specifically in regards to the barrel receiver extension. PSA just has theirs machined to "good enough" specs.

This is what a blank forging looks like (note the cerro forging mark):

View attachment 1096026


I dont want to speak for mtdawg169 , but your Anderson may run 5K, 10K, or maybe well over that with no problems. The issues lies in the product consistency. I would not expect a batch of 100 Anderson rifle to perform the same as a batch of 100 BCM, Colt, KAC, SOLGW, Sionics, etc....rifles.

Personally, I have seen anodizing variances on Anderson's large enough to require cleanup of many holes in the receivers due to the excessive buildup. I have also seen Anderson that were not even drilled for a bolt catch roll pin, and some that had the worst attempt at color consistency I have ever seen (Anodizing almost looked swirled with grey/black). All issues I have not seen or read about with BCM.

So, to your point, the forgings are the same, the end results (product) are not. I have put together an uncomfortable amount of Anderson parts for friends and they are by far, the poorest quality and most inconsistent of any of the more known manufacturers pumping out products currently IMHO.

Anderson is also the reason behind a new product on the market, the offset buffer retaining pin. Apparently a common issue are buffers being beat to death because the hole for the retaining pin is a bit off leaving a small gap between the buffer and bolt carrier.

I doubt many with a BCM lower have ever encountered the issue.

Standard thread outline

It's my first build, is this normal? (Picture of a buffer that looks like it was sanded on a concrete driveway) I've only fired a hundred rounds.

Let me guess, Anderson lower?

Then a hundred people claiming it happens to everybody, Anderson is just as good, they're all forged the same place

Yes, it's a Anderson.

 

[mtdawg169]

And I will add to this fine thread that many of the lower tier manufactures are more than willing to push out lowers/uppers that are clearly out of the acceptable tolerances that top tier manufactures cull from the herd during the QC/QA process. The result is out of spec mag wells, pivot/takedown holes, upper receiver lugs and on and on. This of course leads to the "I took some emery cloth and fixed my tight mag well" and "I just use a nylon hammer to tap my upper closed" threads.

Great thread OP.

Bingo. I've long suspected that certain manufacturers are actually selling guns and parts that were rejected by higher quality companies.

 

[Wallace's]

And I will add to this fine thread that many of the lower tier manufactures are more than willing to push out lowers/uppers that are clearly out of the acceptable tolerances that top tier manufactures cull from the herd during the QC/QA process. The result is out of spec mag wells, pivot/takedown holes, upper receiver lugs and on and on. This of course leads to the "I took some emery cloth and fixed my tight mag well" and "I just use a nylon hammer to tap my upper closed" threads.

Great thread OP.

Cough cough Spikes Tactical cough cough.

 

[Deleted member 38641]

Very interesting for sure. I know that I like good quality as much as the next guy. You made me just take apart my Anderson Rifle to inspect it a take a good look at the internals, as I do anyway every-time I clean it. I guess I am fortunate because mine shows no signs of anything that has been discussed about how bad they are out of spec. Hit and miss aside, I guess time will tell. You know as they say, the proof is in the pudding and at the end of the day the last one running and hitting it's target is the winner.

BTW, my other AR is an M4 Clone done by Wyndham Weaponry. I just had to try this New Technology that Anderson Boasts about with their RF85 Treatment and No Lube. It actually works, SO FAR. That is the main reason I purchased it.

Thanks for all of your wisdom on the topic or Quality AR's

 

[freedom]

Very interesting for sure. I know that I like good quality as much as the next guy. You made me just take apart my Anderson Rifle to inspect it a take a good look at the internals, as I do anyway every-time I clean it. I guess I am fortunate because mine shows no signs of anything that has been discussed about how bad they are out of spec. Hit and miss aside, I guess time will tell. You know as they say, the proof is in the pudding and at the end of the day the last one running and hitting it's target is the winner.

BTW, my other AR is an M4 Clone done by Wyndham Weaponry. I just had to try this New Technology that Anderson Boasts about with their RF85 Treatment and No Lube. It actually works, SO FAR. That is the main reason I purchased it.

Thanks for all of your wisdom on the topic or Quality AR's

Lube your rifle dude.

 

[Deleted member 38641]

Lube your rifle dude.

LOL why, they quote it does not need it. I thought the same as you before. It's worth a try to me and if not then they can replace it.

Believe me, The others get lubed, LOL

 

[freedom]

LOL why, they quote it does not need it. I thought the same as you before. It's worth a try to me and if not then they can replace it.

Believe me, The others get lubed, LOL

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/09/08/ar-endurance-findings-at-a-rental-range/

Money quote

– There is company that has an AR system that has some “parts don’t need lubrication” and that failed before the end of the first day. I don’t think some mfg’s understand that people REALLY use their weapons and when you’re rocking full-auto all day they NEED lubrication. My armorers and RSO’s were laughing when it seized up because we knew there was NO way it would last on our range.

(They're talking about Anderson)

 

[GTSteve03]

Any thoughts on Aero Precision?