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Residential water heater needs replaced

synspeed said:
I don't disagree with anything you are saying. In regards to insurance claims, it's a known fact that water damage is the #1 cause. People tend to think it's fire or storm damage, but it's actually water. It's an easily googled statistic. And there's always those plumbers, masters or not, that simply shouldn't do what they do. There's a bad apple (or 2) at every company. I've been on the bad side of flooding a house before, and it's NO fun. This thread didn't turn south (and my "tone" didn't come about) until everyone began ripping on plumbers, how much we charge, calling us "unnecessary," etc. I've been at this for almost 20 years, the last 14 of which are on the books. In that time, I've never had a single customer be ungrateful for the services/guidance we provide. And as stated, LOTS of our calls are to fix DIY goof-ups. What started out as something completely innocent quickly went off the rails (that one was for you, @JamesG). My original intent was to dissuade people from attempting to DIY the more advanced types of plumbing jobs, i.e. tankless heaters (the whole "screw you, I did it myself" - attitude). That's what the thread was originally based around, a tankless scenario. Trust me, the thread took a turn I never intended. And to answer your last question, we charge $325.00 - $450.00 depending on where it's located (basement, crawlspace, finished ceiling, etc). As expensive as it sounds, it's a pretty standard price nowadays.

Never meant to ruffle anyone's feathers.

https://couri.com/personal/homeowners-insurance/top-five-causes-of-homeowners-insurance-claims/
http://www.nfmt.com/online/education/details/Water-Damage-is-the-1-Cause-of-Insurance-Claims--3134#
http://realtytimes.com/consumeradvice/buyersadvice1/item/9575-20051003_floodinsurance
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Yeah except that's not at all what you said. You said DIYers were "almost SOLEY responsible for the escalation insurance rates in this country." What does that have to do with water damage being the number 1 insurance claim? What do you base that very specific claim on? If you are suggesting that DIYers result in the majority of water damage claims, If your company told you that as a marketing tool that's unconscionable and one of the worst scare tactics I've ever heard. I'd like to see that information as I've never known anyone to have such an issue but I've known many water claims. Heck I had one courtesy of mother nature like I assume the vast majority are but like I said, I'm willing to learn.
I know $400+ is the 'standard price'. That doesn't make it defensible and isn't justification for such an unbelievably simple job to not be done by DIYers when it can be done for less than 1/5 that cost in mere minutes. (FYI this one was in a closet in a finished basement.)
I agree, installing a tankless heater is not something the VAST majority of weekend repair warriors should ever attempt. I sure wouldn't. Heck I didn't want to swap out my standard gas heater. I was glad to pay the man for his services. After watching what he went through, I was even more glad to pay him.
 
GeauxLSU said:
Yeah except that's not at all what you said. You said DIYers were "almost SOLEY responsible for the escalation insurance rates in this country." What does that have to do with water damage being the number 1 insurance claim? What do you base that very specific claim on? If you are suggesting that DIYers result in the majority of water damage claims, If your company told you that as a marketing tool that's unconscionable and one of the worst scare tactics I've ever heard. I'd like to see that information as I've never known anyone to have such an issue but I've known many water claims. Heck I had one courtesy of mother nature like I assume the vast majority are but like I said, I'm willing to learn.
I know $400+ is the 'standard price'. That doesn't make it defensible and isn't justification for such an unbelievably simple job to not be done by DIYers when it can be done for less than 1/5 that cost in mere minutes. (FYI this one was in a closet in a finished basement.)
I agree, installing a tankless heater is not something the VAST majority of weekend repair warriors should ever attempt. I sure wouldn't. Heck I didn't want to swap out my standard gas heater. I was glad to pay the man for his services. After watching what he went through, I was even more glad to pay him.
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Please understand: When you call a plumbing company to do ANYTHING, you aren't just paying for the materials and the technician's time. For owners (looking at you, @sewerman68), a plumbing company is expensive to run, and there are DOZENS of costs that have to be built in to the charges in order to pay even the most basic of overhead. You've got people working in the office, answering the phones. They have to be paid. You've got truck insurance/worker's comp/liability/etc. You've got basics like keeping the lights on. You've got advertising costs. The money to pay for all these things has to come from somewhere, and simply charging for parts a smidge more for the tech's time won't cut it. This is why successful plumbing companies tend to be flat-rate instead of hourly. This way, no matter how long the technician takes to complete the job, at least basic costs have been covered. So when you've got $60 for a PRV (they are more now since the lead-free laws went into effect), plus materials markup, plus fuel to get to your home, plus all the costs mentioned above, it's easy to see how a simple job can end up costing what it does. And even though he doesn't agree with a lot of the things I've said in this thread, @sewerman68 can at least attest to these facts. Defensible or not, the costs are just...necessary. I don't disagree that it's expensive, it just is what it is.
 
synspeed said:
Please understand: When you call a plumbing company to do ANYTHING, you aren't just paying for the materials and the technician's time. For owners (looking at you, @sewerman68), a plumbing company is expensive to run, and there are DOZENS of costs that have to be built in to the charges in order to pay even the most basic of overhead. You've got people working in the office, answering the phones. They have to be paid. You've got truck insurance/worker's comp/liability/etc. You've got basics like keeping the lights on. You've got advertising costs. The money to pay for all these things has to come from somewhere, and simply charging for parts a smidge more for the tech's time won't cut it. This is why successful plumbing companies tend to be flat-rate instead of hourly. This way, no matter how long the technician takes to complete the job, at least basic costs have been covered. So when you've got $60 for a PRV (they are more now since the lead-free laws went into effect), plus materials markup, plus fuel to get to your home, plus all the costs mentioned above, it's easy to see how a simple job can end up costing what it does. And even though he doesn't agree with a lot of the things I've said in this thread, @sewerman68 can at least attest to these facts. Defensible or not, the costs are just...necessary. I don't disagree that it's expensive, it just is what it is.
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Yeah, my entire career has been in corporate finance. I understand overhead. ;)
THAT is what a service call charge is for. Charging $450 to install a sub $100 part part that takes literally 5 minutes is not defensible from a COST stand point.
I bought this one 10 days ago at this same store for $62. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-3-...ssure-Reducing-Valve-3-4-LF25AUB-Z3/202922385 I guess they went up $10.
 
GeauxLSU said:
Yeah, my entire career has been in corporate finance. I understand overhead. ;)
THAT is what a service call charge is for. Charging $450 to install a sub $100 part part that takes literally 5 minutes is not defensible from a COST stand point.
I bought this one 10 days ago at this same store for $62. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-3-...ssure-Reducing-Valve-3-4-LF25AUB-Z3/202922385 I guess they went up $10.
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Agreed, but not every company charges a service/dispatch fee. And even for those that do, $40 or $50 is often simply to weed out the "shoppers." It won't cover said costs.
 
synspeed said:
Statement was made in an attempt to present a point. Apologies.
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OK then what was the point? If I file a claim on my homeowners insurance because I was a bone head trying to DIY, MY rates go up, not yours. They go up for all (on water damage) due to natural disasters which nobody controls and then only in that area (you could move so it's sort of in your control). You made a very specific and very misleading claim. My friendly (unsolicited) advice to you and all tradesman, as a customer, would be to please not do that. It causes people to have unflattering opinions of certain professions which ironically is the very thing you are bemoaning. Generally speaking MOST people are unfamiliar with plumbing, electrical and automotive repairs once it gets beyond the most basic issues. Have enough respect for your customers to let them decide what something is worth to them to hire out. If you can't sell your service and make a living based on honesty and full disclosure, that's when we all have to rethink our vocation (or at at least hopefully our methods).
I doubt I need to say it again but I have full respect for the skills of all honest tradesman and absolutely employ them when needed (and often when not).
 
synspeed said:
Agreed, but not every company charges a service/dispatch fee. And even for those that do, $40 or $50 is often simply to weed out the "shoppers." It won't cover said costs.
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Well that's on them. I paid the guy I believe $75 from the big outfit that quoted me the outrageous price for the install. I didn't bat an eye as he diagnosed the PRV failure. I guess if he did that all day he'd bring in about $750 or roughly $16,500 a month or roughly $200k a year. Seems reasonable. Although now I'll make sure and buy my own test gauge. Have a recommendation? http://www.homedepot.com/s/water%20pressure%20gauge?NCNI-5
 
GeauxLSU said:
Well that's on them. I paid the guy I believe $75 from the big outfit that quoted me the outrageous price for the install. I didn't bat an eye as he diagnosed the PRV failure. I guess if he did that all day he'd bring in about $750 or roughly $16,500 a month or roughly $200k a year. Seems reasonable. Although now I'll make sure and buy my own test gauge. Have a recommendation? http://www.homedepot.com/s/water%20pressure%20gauge?NCNI-5
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Watts. Always Watts.
 
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