So what’s the deal with pre lock?

[SirBannedAlot]

My argument is simply this... A lot of people simple repeat things they heard, and in the interwebs age, myths seem to linger for ever...

We heard it about MIM parts, they are gonna break and fail every 1000 rounds, and yet they somehow don't.

When they introduced the HH, everyone screamed because they didn't like it politically, and then they concocted arguments to bolster their political opposition to it, claiming it was gonna cause guns to lock when they weren't supposed to and people could die, etc... Others heard it, took up the rally cry and when enough people repeat it, it becomes "true", despite it never really actually happening... One would think that with a couple million guns sold over almost 2 decades, that if there was any measurable failure rate, we would have heard about it and someone could produce a credible source documenting it. And yet nobody can.

Because it is a problem that exists in our heads only.

Now, if you don't like the politics, great. If a tiny hole somehow ruins the entire aesthetic of the gun and makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit every time you look at it, fine... Those are just personal preferences, which is what I was asking...

The mass aversion to it is based on things like aesthetics, and politics... Not any actual problem with the gun, not because it actually makes it less reliable, not because it is prone to failure, etc...

It's based on subjective intangibles, not objective tangibles. It is I suspected.

There is no right or wrong answer, I just wanted to know that the answer WAS, and I have it now. :-)

 

[WyldeDime]

My argument is simply this... A lot of people simple repeat things they heard, and in the interwebs age, myths seem to linger for ever...

We heard it about MIM parts, they are gonna break and fail every 1000 rounds, and yet they somehow don't.

When they introduced the HH, everyone screamed because they didn't like it politically, and then they concocted arguments to bolster their political opposition to it, claiming it was gonna cause guns to lock when they weren't supposed to and people could die, etc... Others heard it, took up the rally cry and when enough people repeat it, it becomes "true", despite it never really actually happening... One would think that with a couple million guns sold over almost 2 decades, that if there was any measurable failure rate, we would have heard about it and someone could produce a credible source documenting it. And yet nobody can.

Because it is a problem that exists in our heads only.

Now, if you don't like the politics, great. If a tiny hole somehow ruins the entire aesthetic of the gun and makes you throw up in your mouth a little bit every time you look at it, fine... Those are just personal preferences, which is what I was asking...

The mass aversion to it is based on things like aesthetics, and politics... Not any actual problem with the gun, not because it actually makes it less reliable, not because it is prone to failure, etc...

It's based on subjective intangibles, not objective tangibles. It is I suspected.

There is no right or wrong answer, I just wanted to know that the answer WAS, and I have it now. :-)

I can’t pick your point out from all the smarmy.

 

[SirBannedAlot]

We see this in other areas...

"Man, Ducati's aren't reliable and you have to service them every few months"...

Reality, the maintenance on Ducati's hasn't been like that in 15+ years and their valve interval service milestones are actually further apart than most Jap bikes today.

"You shouldn't use synthetic oil to break in a motor... it's too slick and won't let the rings wear in properly"...

Reality is that is 100% false and most new vehicles come with synthetic oil from the factory. Synthetic isn't more slick than dino oil, it simply holds up better over time and heat cycles and has better flow rates when cold. The myth came from people putting CAR specific synthetic oil into bikes with wet clutches, and car oils contain friction modifiers(molybdenum) that can cause clutch plates to slip...

I can give example after example of where people just read something, assume it is true "because everyone knows that" and the reality is that its wrong.

Not liking it politically isn't wrong, not liking the look isn't wrong...

But claiming that they break more often when there is zero data to support it, is.

 

[jeep78]

Link to credible source of a number of the locks failing that is in any way significant and more than other parts failing?

I can't find any, and I spent a good bit of time looking. What I see are a lot of people predicting that they will, and explaining why they think they can... and then 15+ years of it never really happening.

Go spend some time on the S&W forum. Old news now, but there are plenty of accounts of failures, esp with alloy guns and light magnum loads.

A quick search on youtube shows it is still happening.

"Do you feel lucky?"

 

[jeep78]

And in classic engineering logic about a mechanical part,"If it is not present, it can't fail". The reverse is not true.

 

[Leveraction44]

I said it was one more thing to fail. Actually it is mutiple items that comprises the fugly Hillary-Hole.

 

[GFB]

"Post Purchase Rationalization... is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias."

". . . they do not wish to feel they made the wrong decision, and so will attempt to convince themselves, and their peers, that their original choice was the correct one, and the consumer's opinion is better than everyone's opinion, i.e. using sour grapes arguments."

http://www.cognitivebiasparade.com/2014/09/post-purchase-rationalization.html

 

[Radar363]

I'm against it for what it represents but then I only own Dan Wesson revolvers at this point so don't have a dog in that fight.
I also don't like external safeties and magazine safeties on my striker fired pistols.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I spent 20 minutes searching YouTube.
Found one video showing a lock failure jamming the lockwork of a big, long barreled S&W .357 at the range.
That YouTuber is a gun blogger and he appears to be a serious firearms enthusiast. God knows how many rounds he put through that revolver before the metal part broke inside.

that's the only thing I found about it on YouTube--other than a thousand videos of people telling their opinions how crappy the lock is *** but none of them say that they experienced lock failure themselves!***


I saw a million videos where people show how to disassemble your revolver and remove the internal lock.

 

[fast306stang]

Why? At some point, the reality that there have not been any significant failures will settle in... "old timers" who just "want things the way they were" will pass on, and having a lock that nobody uses will be the "old school"...

I have owned hundreds of guns and a lot of them came with integrated locks... I never even noticed them until I kept seeing people talk about them... So I did some research and there are a few folks *claiming* that the lock could engage or fail, but no real actual verified reports of it happening, and in the better part of 2 decades, I think that's a pretty ample proving ground, no?

As for collectibles... that's entirely perception. People pay more for things not because they are worth more, but because they want them more, and the reasons can be completely arbitrary... If enough like minded people have the same opinion, that determines the value. Or does anyone think that a $9 beanie baby is actually worth 4 grand? LOL

Perceptions change over time. Nothing wrong with preferring older designs... some people like a classic mustang over a new McClaren...

I was just genuinely curious if the answer was something real and tangible, or more ideological... and obviously from the answers, the mental connection to "Hillary", etc.... I have my answer... There is nothing mechanical at all, wrong with the newer guns from the lock perspective. It's just that people don't like having it forced on them.

Which is good to know, because I guess I can scoop up better deals on the locked guns, as less people will want them. :-)

8 years ago.