The ATF accidentally approved a form 1 for a Machine Gun

[albatros43]

I've always been kind of meh on owning a machine gun with the current regs anyway. Unless I'm misunderstanding a civilian has to buy one registered prior to May 1986. I don't understand paying thousands of dollars for a gun that is almost 30 years old at the minimum. Being able to build them on the other hand would be sweet. I'd like a FA MK18!

 

[Zeake]

I'd go into debt. Lol

 

[patracy]

Ok, I just read through that thread. Sorry folks, but I don't see this passing. Alternatively this might give the ATF wind with 41p now. While there is the technicality of a trust being able to/not being able to own a post 86 machine gun by form 1'ing it. A trust can't actually manufacture a machine gun physically. You the person has to do that. And that's where they're going to get you. Also the whole FFL 07/02 is a misdirection from overhyped people. Yeah individuals that work for the 07 can be around post machine guns. However, anyone that actually wants to retain possession of said device offsite must be a responsible party. Just because you work for an 07, doesn't mean you can just tote a machine gun/SBS/SBR/DD/Can home. Not only could that employee get in hot water, but so could the FFL owner/responsible individuals.

Also this person that claims to have an approved form 1, still hasn't gotten the approved form 1. He's also screwed up by talking to the ATF (and even recording it). So he knows and there's proof that his form is invalid.

There was also mention of "what if I drilled the lower for the sear since the form was approved". It wouldn't matter. It was already a post sample to start with. It'll still be a post sample. It will just not be legal for whomever had made it. They could proceed with manufacturing charges then.

Remember folks, we were hyped about getting rid of CLEO sign offs completely. Then we are told about 41p and how EVERYTHING would need it. It's not fair at all. But remember, they don't like looking bad, and will settle the score if they feel like it.

It's an interesting chain of events for sure. But the outcome I don't see working out like everyone hopes. I'm betting the ATF already has recalled the form 1 from USPS. While USPS probably doesn't know where it's at. I wouldn't doubt the ATF wouldn't station a field agent at that local post office to pick up the letter before it even made it out the door to the mail truck.

 

[mkdhotrod]

So the premise is that Trusts are not persons per the ATF but rather an entity and do not fall under the 86 Ban correct?

 

[patracy]

Correct. However, a person, not the trust is who physically builds it. That's going to likely be the atfs path to squelch this. Or prosecute people on the trust for mfg.

 

[batoncolle]

Correct. However, a person, not the trust is who physically builds it. That's going to likely be the atfs path to squelch this. Or prosecute people on the trust for mfg.

I am not following you here. A trust can't manufacture a form 1 SBR or suppressor either. It has to be approved first, and then you can build it.

 

[mkdhotrod]

Correct. However, a person, not the trust is who physically builds it. That's going to likely be the atfs path to squelch this. Or prosecute people on the trust for mfg.

Interesting conundrum.. They are either going to cut trusts out of the equation of NFA or simply amend the 86 ban to update who a person is, which would be entirely more interesting because they cannot simply amend a made law, but rather pass a new one, and not with a repub congress.

 

[mkdhotrod]

I am not following you here. A trust can't manufacture a form 1 SBR or suppressor either. It has to be approved first, and then you can build it.

But SBRs arent banned, machine guns are. A trust doesn't circumvent the nfa, just makes it easier, MGs are completely different under a different Law.

 

[batoncolle]

But SBRs arent banned, machine guns are. A trust doesn't circumvent the nfa, just makes it easier, MGs are completely different under a different Law.

Well technically all MGs aren't banned either, but yes we are on the same page. I am referring to just the fact that a trust can't manufacture. It can't manufacture until it is an approved Form 1.

 

[mkdhotrod]

Well technically all MGs aren't banned either, but yes we are on the same page. I am referring to just the fact that a trust can't manufacture. It can't manufacture until it is an approved Form 1.

Which is exactly why the ATF will likely be sued over this, since they flip flop on different subjects. The thing is, depending on THAT ruling, the ATF doesn't need to create a legislative law, because they now have case law on their side which could help us, or hurt us very bad.