Thoughts on "Bill Of Sale" Firearms Trades/ Purchases

[Phrog Man]

This thread was inspired by a recent deal I had cooking here that was compromised due to a misunderstanding concerning a bill of sale for the sale of a firearm from here on the trader.
This made me wonder how the rest of you guys carry out trades/ sells/ purchases and I decided to start this thread.

The buyer said "I don't do bills of sale, I bought a gun here on the trader, went to an Atlanta range where they log serial numbers and then two days later I was arrested for possession of stolen property", he then said the bill of sale was worthless in court and because of that he didn't want to use one anymore. I can see how he could be arrested from signing in at the range, but it doesn't make sense to me because the piece was still stolen and the bill of sale that he had from the previous owner ended up providing a paper trail that he stated "got him out of it". This didn't make sense to me and the more I think about it after he left without the transaction being made the more it doesn't make sense as to why he would not want the bill of sale. Going to the range and logging in the serial number got him busted, the bill of sale got him out of it by providing the paper trail required to show that he bought the firearm, thus getting the authorities in touch with the person he got it from. It appears to me that he would have been a lot worse off if he did not have the bill of sale to prove these things as he would have had a stolen weapon and no way to prove that he didn't steal it.

Something there didn't add up, he left without the firearm and I left him neutral feedback and stated the situation briefly in his feedback queue. He wasn't willing to compromise and neither was I and neither of us stated our thoughts concerning BOS prior to the meeting, so I felt that was a "neutral experience". I now feel that there was an underlying reason why he didn't want the bill of sale as he contradicted himself a couple of times during the meeting and I didn't really notice what he said till I had time to think about it. I can see how the bill of sale would have gotten him in trouble IF he had sold the hot firearm to someone else who took it to the range and logged the serial number and then referenced the paperwork to come back on him, BUT that wasn't the case.

I told him that the bill of sale may not be everything in court if a piece is stolen, but at least it shows due diligence on the behalf of both parties to do the right thing and handle the transaction in a business like manner. I keep a logbook and copies of all bills of sale for what I have, who I got it from, who I sold it to and etc just in case there is ever a situation arise with something I unknowingly bought "hot" or in case I sell a firearm to the next person who intends to single handedly take over the world and uses that weapon, finding me with a knock on the door.
For the life of me I can't see how a bill of sale could lead to a negative experience, it seems to me that it at least provides some form of formality to these transactions.

So what do you guys think? Are there any "rules" to follow concerning the proper way to buy/sell/trade firearms in Georgia? Anyone else feel the same way I do? Anyone feel the same way that the other guy did? Anyone have any examples of how a bill of sale was a pro or a con in a situation where something was "hot" or where something was used in a crime after a private party deal? I'd like to hear thoughts on this.

 

[potenza]

I always ask for a bill of sale that I have pre printed, never had anyone decline to sell me their gun, even some folks on here that say they would not. When it comes to money people change their minds. If your afraid someone is going to clone you and steal all your info, you should never use wifi of be on the internet. I had a gun returned to me from the Acworth police dept because I had a bill of sale that said I owned it, Never went to court.

 

[cheddar_bob]

If you said nothing about BOS before the meet and broke it out there, he should be leaving you negative feedback. If you require one to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy, be upfront about it.

 

[Phrog Man]

If you said nothing about BOS before the meet and broke it out there, he should be leaving you negative feedback. If you require one to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy, be upfront about it.

I agree and if he left me negative feedback for that I'd agree and accept it because it wasn't stated up front, last time I'll make that mistake, look at my signature line. By the same token he also didn't ask me about my stance on a BOS, so how what if he was the one requiring the BOS and I didn't want to do one? Two way street here. I have done lots of trades and purchases/ sells where the other guy never mentioned it and when he showed up he asked me for a BOS and I said "I was going to do the same, no problem".

The moral to the story is to assume nothing and quantify everything up front. I don't require paperwork to get a warm and fuzzy feeling, I do it because I feel that any transaction for anything should have some sort of receipt or paperwork for the buyer or the seller, whether thats a firearm, car, boat, plane or a kitchen table. I started this thread to see what you guys do and why you do it and what has come from other situations.

The other party was a super nice guy and we didn't have any disagreement or bad words, he simply handed me the weapon back and we parted ways. It was a truly neutral experience. Others that feel the same as I do learn from this situation and state the BOS in your posts and signature line, the same goes for those of you who refuse to do a BOS.

 

[Billrube]

If you said nothing about BOS before the meet and broke it out there, he should be leaving you negative feedback. If you require one to make yourself feel warm and fuzzy, be upfront about it.

Exactly this. If you are going to require anything above and beyond what is required by Georgia law you should notify potential buyers/traders in your thread up front.

By the way, the BOS horse has been beat to death on several threads. You can do a quick search and find a lively debate.

Whether you "do" BOSs or "dont do" BOSs, everyone agrees that you should list your requirements in you for sale/for trade post.

 

[chucklenut]

ill fill one out if the other party wants to, dont care to much

if it makes one side happy then sure, and all a BOS needs is a signature, date, description of what was sold, and first and last name

no one asks for your social security number or anything stupid like that. if you want one you should say it up front just so no issues arise from it. some people can get their panties in a wad if you ask for a BOS without them knowing ahead of time, apparently its like you just asked to plow their sister

 

[Phrog Man]

Exactly this. If you are going to require anything above and beyond what is required by Georgia law you should notify potential buyers/traders in your thread up front.

Like I said, I agree and have learned from this situation. Thats why I started the thread, so others can realize how a deal can be compromised by assumptions.

That said, what exactly does Georgia law require for a firearms transaction between private parties? I have looked several times but can't find specific information concerning any firearms other than class III that are on a Georgia form 4. I think these are things that we all need to know and exercise as we satisfy our trading fetish here on ODT!

 

[cheddar_bob]

I am simply stating what the outcome has been from at least 6-7 of these same type of threads. A BOS does not bother me, I would have signed it, done the deal, and parted ways. There are alot of people that will absolutely not sign one and there would have been a thread started similar to "this guy dropped a BOS on me at the meet" .

 

[cheddar_bob]

Exactly this. If you are going to require anything above and beyond what is required by Georgia law you should notify potential buyers/traders in your thread up front.

By the way, the BOS horse has been beat to death on several threads. You can do a quick search and find a lively debate.

Whether you "do" BOSs or "dont do" BOSs, everyone agrees that you should list your requirements in you for sale/for trade post.

This.....
http://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/141809-Bill-of-sale-yes-or-no

 

[Crubear]

Personally, if I'm buying a weapon I like/appreciate a BOS for the reasons stated -- CYA.

When selling I leave it up to the buyer, it's on their behind.

I don't need to know where it goes, and since I can't check if you're legal then me having a piece of paper doesn't mean much. I do require the buyer to show me their driver's license. If it's a pistol then you must have a GA DL, and I check the age too.