Yeah, a little paraphrasing on my part.
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What would YOU do?
- Thread starter Rbs
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Yeah, a little paraphrasing on my part.
I keep hearing from tactical training people that you're not supposed to let strangers get into your personal space, since sometimes it may be a criminal looking to get close enough to use a hidden weapon against you or just overpower you with a sudden bare-handed attack (maybe with a second criminal popping up out of the woodwork to join in).
But if the criminal(s) has NOT yet given you good clues from which a reasonable person would rightfully be suspicious of an imminent attack, you better tread carefully about how you deal with the "threat" that approaches you on foot, asking something of you or trying to start a conversation with you.
You're always free to give a verbal command to the person to stay away, but they're free to ignore you. You don't have the legal authority and power to tell people not to come too close to you, in a public place like out on the streets or sidewalks or the parking garage of some business. You can't threaten somebody for disregarding your verbal command that they stay away from you. (Unless, of course, that person already gave you clues that they're planning a crime with you as the victim).
If you reach for your gun in such a situation, and the person turns out to NOT be a robber, and that person or some other bystander calls 911, you're likely to be arrested and charged with Aggravated Assault. Just for grabbing your gun and keeping it at low ready, or even leaving it in the holster but establishing a grip on it and making it clear to everybody that you're a split second away from using deadly force.
Aggravated Assault with a firearm is a crime that can get you charged with a felony, possibly with your bond denied at first until a few days to a few weeks later when you can have a bond hearing in front of a Superior Court judge, and it can cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to defend you from these serious felony charges. And ultimately, whether you behaved reasonably or were over-the-top paranoid and aggressive in your response could be a jury question. Your ability to exercise any of your Second Amendment rights for the rest of your life could be in the hands of 12 strangers, most of whom would not own guns and none of which carry one habitually for protection.
It's a real dilemma. You want to be ready and you want to discourage an attack before one is commenced against you, but until you're actually being attacked you have to be very careful how you handle things when you're armed.
But if the criminal(s) has NOT yet given you good clues from which a reasonable person would rightfully be suspicious of an imminent attack, you better tread carefully about how you deal with the "threat" that approaches you on foot, asking something of you or trying to start a conversation with you.
You're always free to give a verbal command to the person to stay away, but they're free to ignore you. You don't have the legal authority and power to tell people not to come too close to you, in a public place like out on the streets or sidewalks or the parking garage of some business. You can't threaten somebody for disregarding your verbal command that they stay away from you. (Unless, of course, that person already gave you clues that they're planning a crime with you as the victim).
If you reach for your gun in such a situation, and the person turns out to NOT be a robber, and that person or some other bystander calls 911, you're likely to be arrested and charged with Aggravated Assault. Just for grabbing your gun and keeping it at low ready, or even leaving it in the holster but establishing a grip on it and making it clear to everybody that you're a split second away from using deadly force.
Aggravated Assault with a firearm is a crime that can get you charged with a felony, possibly with your bond denied at first until a few days to a few weeks later when you can have a bond hearing in front of a Superior Court judge, and it can cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees to defend you from these serious felony charges. And ultimately, whether you behaved reasonably or were over-the-top paranoid and aggressive in your response could be a jury question. Your ability to exercise any of your Second Amendment rights for the rest of your life could be in the hands of 12 strangers, most of whom would not own guns and none of which carry one habitually for protection.
It's a real dilemma. You want to be ready and you want to discourage an attack before one is commenced against you, but until you're actually being attacked you have to be very careful how you handle things when you're armed.
There is a lot of mention in this thread of "personal space". A motivated and armed enemy can be on you very quickly under 15 feet, with very little time to draw and fire. As GAgunLAWbooklet pointed out, you could get in deep doo doo drawing on anyone who comes within 20 feet. I agree that combat awareness is always paramount, and weapons drills should be done in conjunction with CQB training. If nothing else, good CQB training can provide the skills necessary to disable the enemy long enough to draw your sidearm and regain control of the situation.
Very well said and wise advice.
Yep, agreed. So much more to it then just "packin` heat" to stay both alive and legal and avoiding unnecessary trouble from thugs and the law.
It is as you referenced very situationally dependent. While one does not want to provoke an attack and certainly not verbally threaten a "passerby", paying close attention to others posture, body language, & overall demeanor helps a great deal in managing these encounters.
Discretion & "reasonableness" are important considerations in modern society. While no one "has" to follow your verbal command it is not like a sensible person runs around yelling them randomly at strangers in their general vicinity. That response in most cases is reserved for emergencies. It is often used as a warning right before a situation escalates or as "verbal judo" as the L.E. community refers to it.
The key as you referenced is finding balance... not being over-reactive & "slapping leather" (I hate that phrase) at the drop of a hat, but also not letting ones lack of situational awareness make you a 'soft" target.
If you are referring to me as one of those "tactical training people" that you keep hearing from who is stating not to let people close to you, as far as I know we've never spoken.
I believe our philosophies would be similar if we were speaking in person.
Only taking a few excerpts on a subject this complicated it is impossible to convey or understand the full scope of what another person believes or teaches.
Keeping unknown threats at a distance is a foundational principle taught by the majority of trainers in the industry from Mas Ayoob down.
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Greetings All....
I am not sure what it is but something about the original story seems not quite right..... How you react to an adverse situation depends upon numerous factors.... good situational awareness gives you an advantage when it used corrected. Which means not only knowing your environment, but having a tentative plan to respond to an abnormal event. Both are keys to success... Based on the information given by original poster, there is not enough information to make any determination what a reaction to that situation would be....
However, the other posts are correct; doing your very best to keep your distance from potential bad people is clearly an advantage. But the problem is in some cases, determining who is a bad person. Thus, your plan must include what you would do in a situation where the bad guy is very close to you. And a verbal warning if you think a person is getting to close and you a concerned about their intentions, is absolutely appropriate.
Acting like a tough guy can be problematic... and can escalate a situation that could be very benign. Attitude plays a role in situational awareness and a bad attitude can sometimes be more of a problem than a helper.
So it is not a simple as it may appear... but clearly keeping your distance from anyone you feel might be a threat is definitely going to give you the advantage...
Most people do not practice or use situational awareness very well. I test folks often and it is amazing how little people really see that is going on around them.
Any of you might like to attend my presentations at Bass Pro on Situational Awareness, in which I go into much greater detail about the process and how fear and other factors play a role in your actions and responses... or Protective Measures :-) could invite me up there to give a talk to his customer base....
In the mean time I will provide you with this article you might enjoy reading....
http://www.urbansurvivalcenter.net/#!Situational-Awareness/cedb/EE43D909-D6A2-4982-AA70-B6B0CBA301A0
The best to you all
I am not sure what it is but something about the original story seems not quite right..... How you react to an adverse situation depends upon numerous factors.... good situational awareness gives you an advantage when it used corrected. Which means not only knowing your environment, but having a tentative plan to respond to an abnormal event. Both are keys to success... Based on the information given by original poster, there is not enough information to make any determination what a reaction to that situation would be....
However, the other posts are correct; doing your very best to keep your distance from potential bad people is clearly an advantage. But the problem is in some cases, determining who is a bad person. Thus, your plan must include what you would do in a situation where the bad guy is very close to you. And a verbal warning if you think a person is getting to close and you a concerned about their intentions, is absolutely appropriate.
Acting like a tough guy can be problematic... and can escalate a situation that could be very benign. Attitude plays a role in situational awareness and a bad attitude can sometimes be more of a problem than a helper.
So it is not a simple as it may appear... but clearly keeping your distance from anyone you feel might be a threat is definitely going to give you the advantage...
Most people do not practice or use situational awareness very well. I test folks often and it is amazing how little people really see that is going on around them.
Any of you might like to attend my presentations at Bass Pro on Situational Awareness, in which I go into much greater detail about the process and how fear and other factors play a role in your actions and responses... or Protective Measures :-) could invite me up there to give a talk to his customer base....
In the mean time I will provide you with this article you might enjoy reading....
http://www.urbansurvivalcenter.net/#!Situational-Awareness/cedb/EE43D909-D6A2-4982-AA70-B6B0CBA301A0
The best to you all
It is difficult to surmise what u would do in a situation such as this. As previously stated, situational awareness is key. Go armed, be safe, and God speed yall...
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Some things I learned from this thread.
1. The 2nd shift coworker must not have NOT been a Rockford Files fan because you always have someone following you and you have to know it when they're bad guys.
You always get away and if there's an altercation you always come out clean....somehow.
2.so e people think its cool to let the bad guy invade your personal space and attack you before touching your firearm...........screw that!
Been there more than once and learned what works and what doesent.....although another option is being so friggin cool that you diffuse the bad guy to the point where he's your new best friend.
Been there as well.
3.Nothing is text book and situational awareness and raw perception will be your only companion.
4.whats wrong with holding out your hand and telling the bad guy to stop and not come any closer because you have Ebola and immediately start hacking like you have kennel cough?
5.Patricio 2626 has some pretty cool neighbors.
6. let your wives, girlfriends, kids and loved ones read through this post just so they too may become better prepared if they're ever in this situation or one like it.
7.if you notice someone following you.........don't lead them to your house, call the cops....chances are they won't show up till 45 minutes later but it's worth a try.
1. The 2nd shift coworker must not have NOT been a Rockford Files fan because you always have someone following you and you have to know it when they're bad guys.
You always get away and if there's an altercation you always come out clean....somehow.
2.so e people think its cool to let the bad guy invade your personal space and attack you before touching your firearm...........screw that!
Been there more than once and learned what works and what doesent.....although another option is being so friggin cool that you diffuse the bad guy to the point where he's your new best friend.
Been there as well.
3.Nothing is text book and situational awareness and raw perception will be your only companion.
4.whats wrong with holding out your hand and telling the bad guy to stop and not come any closer because you have Ebola and immediately start hacking like you have kennel cough?
5.Patricio 2626 has some pretty cool neighbors.
6. let your wives, girlfriends, kids and loved ones read through this post just so they too may become better prepared if they're ever in this situation or one like it.
7.if you notice someone following you.........don't lead them to your house, call the cops....chances are they won't show up till 45 minutes later but it's worth a try.
While I'm glad your Co - worker wasn't shot, how lucky was he the per brought a knife to the gun fight.... & used the knife & not the gun.
I can't argue with the situational awareness argument especially when Google Maps is on every cellphone these days... even crooks carry those.
I can't argue with the situational awareness argument especially when Google Maps is on every cellphone these days... even crooks carry those.
