^ That is a joke, right?
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$550 Daniel Defense Upper
- Thread starter albatros43
- Start date
Nope, show me where they exceed the competition.
Let's be fair. Who are we calling competition?
Who do you want?
At the end of the day, they are just another AR company. AR's have flooded the market. Of course they have to start dropping prices. Many companies produce CHF barrels. I'm just saying, there is nothing special. They have done a good job at marketing their product.
At the end of the day, they are just another AR company. AR's have flooded the market. Of course they have to start dropping prices. Many companies produce CHF barrels. I'm just saying, there is nothing special. They have done a good job at marketing their product.
Please list the many companies who produce CHF barrels for AR15s.. Let's start there.
There are many companies. Just use your that Google search bar.
I have to work now, I'll check on your progress later.
I have to work now, I'll check on your progress later.
Lets start with just the basic key differences between these at first glance. I see they are as follows:
That $550 DD upper is complete minus rear BUIS. The HA upper is an upper only, no BCG or CH. Now, add their BCG for $99, and charging handle for $19 and we are at $319.
So now that we are comparing the same components, what makes up the $231 difference in price?
Barrel:
DD use a 1:7 twist CHF CMV (cold hammer forged) (Chrome Moly Vanadium) steel vs HA 1:9 (Chrome Moly Vanadium) button rifled.
Some will argue that the hammer forging process yields a better barrel vs a button rifled as its forged around a rifling mandrel vs being cut using a broach.
Will the average joe that put 5-10 mags through their AR and then sticks in in the safe for the rest of its life or trades it off ever notice? No
Will the guy that competitive shoots and dumps thousands of rounds through their AR notice? Yes, they should see a longer barrel life as the forging process strengthens the barrel steel and should allow the rifiling to last much longer.
Their are other difference as well between the two that others may want to argue about like how the rifiling is dressed after being cut, but again average joe wont care about most of this. If you do care, then you are more than likely aware of what you can further do to increase the possibility of better accuracy.
The twist is pretty different: DD'd 1:7 twist will allow you to use a variety of heavier weight bullets and be able to stabilize them (You can shoot up to 80+gr projectiles if you wanted, although those wont even fit in a mag) the HA's 1:9 will cover you for most readily available commercial ammo up to 70-ish grain weight. You will have to find what your rifle will stabilize through some trial and error though.
Again though, if you building a 16" gun, crazy awesome bench rest gun type accuracy may not be a priority for you and I doubt you will be sending $1/round target ammo down range.
BCG (Bolt carrier group)
I don't really see much of a difference here other than DD noting they have the upgraded extrator kit from the factory "extrator booster". It uses the stronger 5 coil extractor spring (higher spring rate) to increase the reliability of the spent casing extraction from the rifle. It allows the extractor to hang onto the spent casing rim better and yield more reliable extraction.
I could not tell you any other differences with this as DD doesn't list as much material details as HA's does. Someone else could probably chime in.
Charging Handle:
Both appear to be a nice 6161 aluminum piece, although DD does not note any details really on their site.
FSB vs gas block:
The DD's comes with their A2 FSB (front sight base) vs HA's gas block.
I personally like the A2 FSB as they are typically tapered pinned and mated to each barrel (very sturdy). This is in part because if you runs a 14.5" the bayonet attaches directly to it as well as having a sling loop. I have noticed that with the popularity of people wanting to run longer free float rails, this poses an issue as the FSB is too tall to allow longer rails to fit (DD does make a quad rail to let you keep an A2 FSB though).
HA's gas block is just that, a component to transfer the gas from the barrels gas port to the gas tube vs including the sight. Depending on the physical dimension of the block, this will allow you to run any free float rail you would want without restriction.
I dont like HA's gas block as it is not railed, so that drastically limits your iron sight option to clamp types. That upper would be best suited as an "optics only" rifle unless you changed that gas block out or added a long rail to put better iron sights on.
Cost wise, the gas block is much cheaper. The A2 FSB will typical cost more due to its manufacturing costs (more components) and the fact that you have to drill and taper ream each one to the barrel (more time involved). Gas blocks can be drilled and pinned too, but HA's notes theirs are dimpled implying that they are installed with set screws only (not noted if they use red loctitie as recommended by most manufacturers).
Free float vs non-free float:
I also see that the HA uses and end cap for drop in M4 handguards vs DD's free float rail.
Free float means the handgaurds do not touch the barrel ultimately eliminating the chance of barrel deflection by pressure on the handguards.
This is up to you if it is an important factor. There is a cost difference between the two though. As drop in handgaurds are just plastic with some thin heat shield lining them, they are typically VERY cheap to purchase. The delta rind assembly and end cap to allow them to install is very cheap too. Your std upper parts kit will include these items and can be purchased separately for about $25. Compared to a free float handguard that could require a special barrel nut and or tools, the free float route can go $200+ easily for a quality unit. As reference, DD's Lite Rail III (vs the II on that $550 upper) is $335 by itself. That is part of the value difference as well.
Receivers:
DD uses and 7075 aluminum receiver vs HA's ?????
I do not see any details other than M4 feed ramps and T-marked listed. Both note being anodized and "mil-spec". Not much info to really say their is a quality difference here.
Lastly, DD is nearly all USA made (this $550 doesn't imply so, but the majority of their components listed are DD made parts). HA's doesn't note much about the origin of many of their parts?? Again, maybe others could chime in here.
I also don't see a well defined warranty policy for HA's?? DD has proven to make a very nice gun and provide excellent customer service though all the forum junk I have read over the past couple years.
I am not knocking the HA's uppers, they are just not the same value as compared to the DD offering for $550.
Hope this helped some. Others like @ASH556 or
mtdawg169
may be able to provide more detailed specifics I overlooked. Feel free to correct any mis-information above too!
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@wallaces covered it pretty well. Primary differences can be found in the quality of the rail, barrel, BCG and a very high level of QC.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Two. That's it. But I suspect that you already knew the answer.
bcm, daniel defense, fnh, rainier arms(looking at their specs,looks like fnh produced).@wallaces covered it pretty well. Primary differences can be found in the quality of the rail, barrel, BCG and a very high level of QC.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Two. That's it. But I suspect that you already knew the answer.
So tempted to buy this for the price, but have no need for this. I really do love their a2 FSB. its such an upgrade from standard FSB's and I prefer FSB over rail mounted options.
It really is a fantastic deal on a top shelf upper and that improved FSB is very nice.
There are many companies selling guns with HF barrels. But there are only two sources in the country for manufacturing. And one of them, (DD), no longer sells their barrels as oem parts to other manufacturers. If you see a gun with an HF barrel that isn't a DD, the barrel blank was made by FN. However, that doesn't mean that they are all created equal. FN only builds the barrels to the spec provided by the client. So gas port sizes, straightness, runout, etc, can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer based on exactly what they asked FN to make.
