• ODT Gun Show & Swap Meet - May 4, 2024! - Click here for info

Anyone carry your own personal defense loads?

I asked Massad Ayoob in a pm on another forum about this. He cited several cases with over zealous DA's.
His argument was convincing enough that I only carry factory ammo.

Did any of those over zealous DAs actually get a conviction or enhanced sentence based on the use of reloads?
 
I carry my reloads I just make sure all the rounds have the same amount of powder. Not sure how many rounds I loaded before I started to trust my own rounds cause i have loaded a lot but I do also have factory rounds
 
You fellas are assuming logic prevails in a court room. I personally wouldn't depend on logic in a court room, especially when the jury is made up of the "average" citizen. Remember, the average citizen out there is fairly easily swayed about many things and their perception is their reality. What sounds crazy to you here will likely not sound crazy to them in the brief period of a court case when they have little time to think about it.

Exactly... you cannot make broad sweeping conclusions on what will or won't happen.
Juries do crazy things. As a very respected & successful attorney in my area or his legendary friend Bobby Lee Cook ( not sure which one) states, "If you want justice, go to a whorehouse, you get what you pay for... if you want a good show, go to the courthouse"
 
Exactly... you cannot make broad sweeping conclusions on what will or won't happen.
Juries do crazy things. As a very respected & successful attorney in my area or his friend legendary Bobby Lee Cook ( not sure which one) states, "If you want justice, go to a whorehouse, you get what you pay for... if you want a good show, go to the courthouse"
LOL :thumb:
 
I trust my own loads with my life as I've never had a malfunction with one of them but as you said before "all legal ramifications aside"

The problem is those legal ramifications. When I was teaching CCW courses in NE and NV it always came down to this .... we had police and lawyers both giving talks in the classes and it always came up where someone would say "why wouldn't I carry my own loads"

And in every single case both the officer and the lawyer agreed, for the sake of liability and potential criminal prosecution, that this is an absolutely horrible, terrible idea.

One of the lawyers went on to explain that he had lost cases where people loaded their own ammunition and were literally convicted of manslaughter because they were using hot loads that were designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm ... another case was mentioned where the police were investigating and they couldn't accurately determine whether the shooting occurred within the distance specified by person "being attacked" because the loads left in the mag were inconsistent and it was suspected that the perpetrator was much farther away than the shooter said he was .... another conviction.

I trust my ammo but if there is even a chance that self defense could land me in prison I think that it was worth the $26 a box.
 
I trust my own loads with my life as I've never had a malfunction with one of them but as you said before "all legal ramifications aside"

The problem is those legal ramifications. When I was teaching CCW courses in NE and NV it always came down to this .... we had police and lawyers both giving talks in the classes and it always came up where someone would say "why wouldn't I carry my own loads"

And in every single case both the officer and the lawyer agreed, for the sake of liability and potential criminal prosecution, that this is an absolutely horrible, terrible idea.

One of the lawyers went on to explain that he had lost cases where people loaded their own ammunition and were literally convicted of manslaughter because they were using hot loads that were designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm ... another case was mentioned where the police were investigating and they couldn't accurately determine whether the shooting occurred within the distance specified by person "being attacked" because the loads left in the mag were inconsistent and it was suspected that the perpetrator was much farther away than the shooter said he was .... another conviction.

I trust my ammo but if there is even a chance that self defense could land me in prison I think that it was worth the $26 a box.

Because factory SD ammo isn't "designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm". How about that ammo that your local police use? Ya know, the ones we're supposed to ask about and carry so as to protect ourselves from that liability? Isn't it "designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm"?
 
Because factory SD ammo isn't "designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm". How about that ammo that your local police use? Ya know, the ones we're supposed to ask about and carry so as to protect ourselves from that liability? Isn't it "designed to kill or inflict significant bodily harm"?

If anything you are persistent in ignoring good, sound advice by trained professionals. I agree that typically hand loaded vs. store bought ammunition should not be a consideration in making a case for or against a charged individual. But what should happen and what does often part ways in a courtroom.

What you continue to naively ignore is that a jury of your peers are typically folks with little or no knowledge about firearms or ammunition. A PA will bring into question a defendant's character and will use everything given or produced. A seasoned lawyer will inform a defendant to not make his job any harder.

Most shootings involve store purchased ammo. A shooting with reloaded ammo is fairly uncommon. Why give the P.A. fodder to form a case? Does anyone think that if poor little Trevon was shot with reloads it would not be yet another hurdle for his defense to climb? Really? Does anyone really think it is without a measured risk (however small) to carry your own hand loads and do you justify yourself by "case law". If so I think you may be deluding yourself.

So no man has ever been incarcerated, plead out or sentenced more strictly for simply a swayed jury? Some folks have lot knowledge but precious little wisdom. Some folks have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to themselves or others.


http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/off-topic-humor-discussion/60267-show-me-caselaw.html
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/60175-legality-hand-load-ammo.html
 
Last edited:
I absolutely believe the professionals that know the law and train people everyday. I for sure think that they hav e forgotten more than I will ever know. The thing that I keep coming back to though is the fact that you are either justified in leathal force or you are not. What happens at the terminal point should not matter. If you are justified you won't even be in a courtroom defending youurself. I freely admit that I don't know the Georgia Code intimately but I'm pretty sure there is no law that says you must use factory ammo in a justified self defense situation. If somebody can show me a law that says that I'll start today. I do respect everyones opinion on this I just chose to carry my own.
 
If anything you are persistent in ignoring good, sound advice by trained professionals. I agree that typically hand loaded vs. store bought ammunition should not be a consideration in making a case for or against a charged individual. But what should happen and what does often part ways in a courtroom.

What you continue to naively ignore is that a jury of your peers are typically folks with little or no knowledge about firearms or ammunition. A PA will bring into question a defendant's character and will use everything given or produced. A seasoned lawyer will inform a defendant to not make his job any harder.

Most shootings involve store purchased ammo. A shooting with reloaded ammo is fairly uncommon. Why give the P.A. fodder to form a case? Does anyone think that if poor little Trevon was shot with reloads it would not be yet another hurdle for his defense to climb? Really? Does anyone really think it is without a measured risk (however small) to carry your own hand loads and do you justify yourself by "case law". If so I think you may be deluding yourself.

So no man has ever been incarcerated, plead out or sentenced more strictly for simply a swayed jury? Some folks have lot knowledge but precious little wisdom. Some folks have just enough knowledge to be dangerous to themselves or others.


http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/off-topic-humor-discussion/60267-show-me-caselaw.html
http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-ammunition-ballistics/60175-legality-hand-load-ammo.html

What I am persistent in is demanding that if you make an argument, you should be able to point to something in the real world and say "THIS is why I make that argument".

I've read the arguments here. I've looked through all the links. They're all long on stuff that COULD happen and short on stuff that HAS happened. Fine...if that's all you have, say so.

The bottom line, after reading everything, is that it MIGHT cause a little more problem for you...but no one can say for certain that it will or how much. Seems more like general advice for avoiding trouble than anything actually related to hand loading.

What else should we avoid? Seems that someone carrying extra mags might be setting themselves up, doesn't it? At least as much as anyone that hand loads. What about carrying a BUG? That's just asking for it. Do you have a gun-related bumper sticker on your vehicle? Gun magazine subscriptions? Do you carry those evil "high capacity clips"? Seems that if we're trying to avoid anything that makes us look bad to an anti-gun zealot of a prosecutor and a retarded jury, there are a few more things to add to the list along with using reloads for SD.
 
What else should we avoid? Seems that someone carrying extra mags might be setting themselves up, doesn't it? At least as much as anyone that hand loads. What about carrying a BUG? That's just asking for it. Do you have a gun-related bumper sticker on your vehicle? Gun magazine subscriptions? Do you carry those evil "high capacity clips"? Seems that if we're trying to avoid anything that makes us look bad to an anti-gun zealot of a prosecutor and a retarded jury, there are a few more things to add to the list along with using reloads for SD.

Well since you ask, this would not be the first time the question has been asked and surely won't be the last. So here it is:

1). Extra magazines of "normal" capacity are actually recommended. Most LEO carry 3 loaded "normal" capacity magazines for most departments. However if you have a satchel of 20-30 loaded "normal" magazines on you at the time of a shooting be prepared to answer a lot of intense questions. Utilize a 33 rounder for a pistol that was designed and sold with 15-17 rounds may pose more questions and will not often be over looked by a PA trying to make a name.

2). A back up gun is a common condoned practice and required by some law enforcement and even if a PA went there the standard has been set.

3). No gun related stickers are on my vehicle nor will they be.

4). I have current subscriptions to several (Christmas present from my Dad) and education should never be considered a liability.

5). My self-defense guns come with the "normal" capacity magazines be they 7 to 17 rounds that the manufacturer intended and sold with the gun. I do have a 33 rounder but it's more of a range toy and not something I would use for SD. Shoot a 17 year old child of the wrong race with a 33 round Glock 19 and see what the media does with it in the public court not to mention the PA.

These are only recommendations that have been discussed for years. There are no laws dictating it so in Georgia and you are legally (with permit) entitled carry 3-4 loaded pistols with a back pack of loaded 33 round magazines. However no one can predict the future and use your better judgment with your own personal choices.

One should conduct risk assessment and plan wisely for success.

Frank Ettin's post is one that I paid some attention to. http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=391656
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom