Did he "jump the gun"?

[kimchee45]

Dangerously insane people have been in human culture forever.
Society used to be able to cure them, either by permanent imprisonment or execution, the only two cures known to be 100% effective.
Then, the 'bleeding hearts' decided this was harsh and the dangerously insane should be turned free to prey on others.
This, only because the 'bleeding hearts' are always insulated from the effects of their actions, by walls, body guards, or other security.


http://listverse.com/2014/04/02/10-crazy-facts-from-bedlam-historys-most-notorious-asylum/

 

[rOmiLaYu]

He would have been OK if the perp came at him, but he is not OK to go and insert himself into the situation. That is not 'stand your ground.'

"Stand your ground" only applies to self defense. This started off as defeating a forcible felony which then turned in to a self defense situation.

 

[jcountry]

This is one of those "could he? Yes. Should he? no." things. While the Castle Doctine does not apply, as already stated, grand theft auto is a forcible felony and at least in your state, lethal force is condoned in stopping same. So was he within the law to come out the door like he did? Yes.

Should he have just stayed inside, called 911, and waited? I would have, yes. No thing is worth dying over.

I do wish I were on that jury. I definitely wouldn't convict.

It wasn't smart to go outside and confront that idiot. Let the cops do that.

He would walk if I were on the jury, but he was stupid for going and getting into it with that fool.

Bottom line. Stand your ground means stay where you are. And never bluff with a gun.

 

[Ken Ford]

This is one of those "could he? Yes. Should he? no." things. While the Castle Doctine does not apply, as already stated, grand theft auto is a forcible felony and at least in your state, lethal force is condoned in stopping same. So was he within the law to come out the door like he did? Yes.

Should he have just stayed inside, called 911, and waited? I would have, yes. No thing is worth dying over.

Only a forcible felony if it was currently occupied.

Like I said this was an I'm assuming a non experienced victim that probably believed his gun would solve any confrontation at the mere display.
There is true evil in this world, and this appears to have been a battle of good(abiet stupid) vs evil. Good won out this time... good tactics and a level head would have insur d it's out come rather than luck. But the guy should not be charged.

That being said, there may well be much more to this case. Just as in LE shootings it would be advisable to wait till more info arises. Although with the vagarities and back pedaling I suspect there isn't any.

 

[cdb400]

Should he have just stayed inside, called 911, and waited? I would have, yes. No thing is worth dying over.

No doubt! If it was my car, I would have unlocked via the key phob and let him take it.

Of course my car is 10yrs old and looks/smells like a hobo anyways...

 

[Spiderman11]

"I really hope he walks away clean from this though" Why are you invested in this guys future?

"Hindsight being 20/20, he probably didn't expect it to escalate to a fight when he stepped outside to confront him." He came out of the door with his gun pointed at the perp. That doesn't seem like a DE-escalation move to me.

"Unfortunately, when dealing with bad guys, they can be unpredictable - response still must be reasonable though." Bad guys? No sure about that. But a guy with mental illness is def gonna be unpredictable. Another reason to keep your distance from the perp(along with a million other reasons like tactical advantage.) He NEVER need to get close enough to the perp to "feel threatened" and have to use his gun.

He could have yelled at him from the open door that police were on there way. The perp wasn't hurting or threatening anybody. Wasn't even able to get in the car. Seems to me this was a man with a gun trying to be a cowboy without having any training on how to handle the issue.

I'm not invested at all - just looking at different angles - but just to clarify your position, you're good with the arrest and murder charge for the business owner?

"bad guy" = someone trying to break into my things - certainly not a "good guy"

 

[Spiderman11]

No doubt! If it was my car, I would have unlocked via the key phob and let him take it.

Of course my car is 10yrs old and looks/smells like a hobo anyways...

lol . . that's what full coverage insurance is for!!! - I don't leave anything in my car so valuable that it can't be easily replaced (and of course never any weapons)

 

[Ken Ford]

I do wish I were on that jury. I definitely wouldn't convict.

It wasn't smart to go outside and confront that idiot. Let the cops do that.

He would walk if I were on the jury, but he was stupid for going and getting into it with that fool.

Bottom line. Stand your ground means stay where you are. And never bluff with a gun.

I agree with everything except "don't go outside" and let the. Cops handle it.
I have no problem with the guy running the guy off, and we too often "just let the cops handle it"
I think we turn over too much to the Govt as it is.

 

[jcountry]

"Stand your ground" only applies to self defense. This started off as defeating a forcible felony which then turned in to a self defense situation.

I saw a good discussion of 'stand your ground' as applied to the Trayvon case.

The attorney explained that once you 'carry your fight' away from your house or personal space, the 'stand your ground' defense is no longer reliable. This is why the who Trayvon thing was such a mess. Would have been one thing is Trayvon were trying to break into Zimmerman's house. A shooting would have been very easy to defend in that situation.

The situation changed when Zimmerman tried to follow Trayvon all over the place. Even the 911 operator was telling him to not follow.

Something to keep in mind. Let's say your neighbor calls and says someone is breaking in. You would like to help them out-and you may choose to, but be aware that once you leave your house and property, you are getting into very muddy waters. You are no longer standing your ground or defending your personal zone.

 

[cdb400]

I'm not invested at all - just looking at different angles - but just to clarify your position, you're good with the arrest and murder charge for the business owner?

Copy that. To clarify, I hold no position one way or the other. I wasn't there. That will be left up to our judicial system now. My position IS to remain as far removed from that system as possible.