Factory Blemish Galil Ace

[Necrosis]

I would guess that the hold over was pretty extreme at that distance, I would have thought the bullet would destabilize at that range out of there 14" barrel.

Just to be clear, I understand it can still preform out of a 16" barrel. I just personally think it's a waste when it degrades then velocity down to a 22" barreled 300 savage just to save a few inches when the saved length add's nothing to real world problems other than it looks more tactical. The few ounces saves doesn't mean much when the gun's are over 8 lbs with out optics.

6+ inches of barrel makes a big difference when handling the rifle in tight quarters, vehicles, houses, etc and can allow a rifle to better serve more than one purpose.

Based on the barrel chop testing I've seen we are talking about a 20 fps +/- loss per inch of barrel for 308, less than 1% of the 2500+ fps velocity. Save half a foot in length for 94% ballistic effectiveness seems like a good trade to me.

Also if adding a suppressor, this added length must be considered as well and is much more manageable on a 16" barrel than longer ones.

 

[cmshoot]

6+ inches of barrel makes a big difference when handling the rifle in tight quarters, vehicles, houses, etc and can allow a rifle to better serve more than one purpose.

Based on the barrel chop testing I've seen we are talking about a 20 fps +/- loss per inch of barrel for 308, less than 1% of the 2500+ fps velocity. Save half a foot in length for 94% ballistic effectiveness seems like a good trade to me.

Also if adding a suppressor, this added length must be considered as well and is much more manageable on a 16" barrel than longer ones.

Yeah, you pretty much covered it. I don’t think I have much to add.

I would guess that the hold over was pretty extreme at that distance, I would have thought the bullet would destabilize at that range out of there 14" barrel.

Just to be clear, I understand it can still preform out of a 16" barrel. I just personally think it's a waste when it degrades then velocity down to a 22" barreled 300 savage just to save a few inches when the saved length add's nothing to real world problems other than it looks more tactical. The few ounces saves doesn't mean much when the gun's are over 8 lbs with out optics.

If the rifle is lethal and accurate at 1000yds with a 16” barrel, what appreciable advantage is 6” of additional barrel gonna give me?

Rifleshooter magazine did a test years ago where they started with a 28” .308 and tested it as they cut the barrel down inch by inch. With 168grn FGMM, at 22” it chrono’ed at 2597fps; at 16.5” it chrono’ed at 2466fps. That’s a difference of 131fps. From 28” down to 16.5”, there was an average of approximately 23fps per inch of barrel lost.

I’m not saying that everyone that shoots their .308’s long distance needs to cut their barrels down to 16.5”. I’m just saying that the .308 is an eminently capable round out of a barrel that short. Personally, for a .308 precision rifle, my favorite length is 22”, however, I have rigs that were designed for specific tasks and oftentimes 16.5” - 18” is the barrel lengths that work best for me in those areas.

Another consideration is that with all other factors beings equal, a shorter barrel will be stiffer than a longer barrel.

 

[Tikker]

6+ inches of barrel makes a big difference when handling the rifle in tight quarters, vehicles, houses, etc and can allow a rifle to better serve more than one purpose.

I'm pretty sure its maybe just 1% of the gun market that actually have to deal with such circumstances. The majority of people will just be using these at ranges & talking about the benefits of such things with grandiose idea's of WW3 gorilla tactics. I doubt many will go over 500 rounds of ammo through it before they get bored and want the next best platform to rely on & trade it off or store it in their collection.

Now if it's all about handiness, I'd say use a 7.62x39 or any AR15 cartridge that floats your boat. Nothing about the 308 win makes it a handy weapon for close quarter battle with it's heavier firearm platforms, ammo, & recoil. If I had to use a gun in such instances that you stated, I would use my AK with the Zhukov folding stock or a purpose built AR15 & use 5.56.

I still think 18" is the lowest on the 308 win that's worth while like on the M&P 10 I own. I doubt the Galil will be any kind of long range shooter with it's standard shorter barrel. It's a piston driven rifle & they aren't known for accuracy at long range.

 

[palmettomoon]

"I still think 18" is the lowest on the 308 win that's worth while like on the M&P 10 I own. I doubt the Galil will be any kind of long range shooter with it's standard shorter barrel. It's a piston driven rifle & they aren't known for accuracy at long range."

The Galil, the M&P10 or any piston rifle (short or long stroke)? Are you including the M1A and other rifles in that statement? Just curious.

 

[Necrosis]

I'm pretty sure its maybe just 1% of the gun market that actually have to deal with such circumstances. The majority of people will just be using these at ranges & talking about the benefits of such things with grandiose idea's of WW3 gorilla tactics. I doubt many will go over 500 rounds of ammo through it before they get bored and want the next best platform to rely on & trade it off or store it in their collection.

Now if it's all about handiness, I'd say use a 7.62x39 or any AR15 cartridge that floats your boat. Nothing about the 308 win makes it a handy weapon for close quarter battle with it's heavier firearm platforms, ammo, & recoil. If I had to use a gun in such instances that you stated, I would use my AK with the Zhukov folding stock or a purpose built AR15 & use 5.56.

I still think 18" is the lowest on the 308 win that's worth while like on the M&P 10 I own. I doubt the Galil will be any kind of long range shooter with it's standard shorter barrel. It's a piston driven rifle & they aren't known for accuracy at long range.

I don't think it's far fetched to use a rifle defensively within your home against home invader. Is it likely? No, but neither is ever getting into a gun fight at all as a civilian...it doesn't mean we don't acknowledge that it can happen and prepare for it.

Would a 5.56 be better than a 308 in a house? Probably, but maybe a 308 is what you have at the time. Or maybe you are hunting deer from a blind (or stalking the woods) and the compactness is a great benefit.

The point is there is very little lost ballistically by going to a 16" barrel in 308 (and possibly some accuracy gained), but that shorter barrel undoubtedly handles better and is easier to get into action.

 

[Jeddak]

What amazes me is someone willing to argue 308 merits in a long barrel while disregarding a guy who IS a sniper, who teaches rifle courses, who was in combat. SMH

 

[Tikker]

What amazes me is someone willing to argue that 308 merits in a long barrel while disregarding a guy who IS a sniper, who teaches rifle courses, who was in combat. SMH

I stated my personal opinion that I don't care for short barreled 308's. Seems people kept quoting me trying to convince me otherwise. I did state that it can still perform out of a 16", but there are better options in my opinion for a short barreled rifle. For the mass amount of people comparing themselves with being a potential sniper or tactical operator is laughable. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cmshoot say he also preferred 22" barrels?

Agreed. It's like trying to backup the trash talk with useless nonsense, if nothing more than to convince yourself that you didn't step in your own pile of s&*%!!

I still stand by my opinion. Just because it's not aligned with yours doesn't make me wrong, it just show's we have different views on the matter. If I hurt peoples feelings about the whole tacticool outlook that people have then.....oh well.

 

[MegaFan]

No, actually you stated that the 16" 308 was a waste. Not sure where you got sidetracked on "tacticool". You say my numerous 16" 308's are a waste and I simply say... no more of a waste than your opinion.

I don't see the attraction to a 16" 308, just a waste.

 

[cmshoot]

I stated my personal opinion that I don't care for short barreled 308's. Seems people kept quoting me trying to convince me otherwise. I did state that it can still perform out of a 16", but there are better options in my opinion for a short barreled rifle. For the mass amount of people comparing themselves with being a potential sniper or tactical operator is laughable. Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't cmshoot say he also preferred 22" barrels?



I still stand by my opinion. Just because it's not aligned with yours doesn't make me wrong, it just show's we have different views on the matter. If I hurt peoples feelings about the whole tacticool outlook that people have then.....oh well.

That ain’t what I said. My exact words were, “.....for a .308 precision rifle, my favorite length is 22”, however, I have rigs that were designed for specific tasks and oftentimes 16.5” - 18” is the barrel lengths that work best for me in those areas.”

My 16.5”-18” .308’s see the most use.

 

[palmettomoon]

Anecdotal but I have a Ruger GSR in .308 with a short barrel that is capable of outstanding accuracy with 168 gr. SMKs.