folks at the "old"site"

[RIDDLE]

I think what some of you are failing to realize is that the rules here aren't that much different than the rules we had there.

#1 - Dealers: Here they are OK, on GON they were not. And for the record, the GON definition of a dealer was not just FFL holders/auto dealers, etc. It was someone using the site JUST for the S&S. That site is an outdoor site that had a S&S. This site is a S&S site with a few outdoors forums. That is the difference.

#2 - Repost Rule: 3 days here, 5 days there

#3 - Bumping: Same (essentially you can't bump)

#4 - Comments (price bashing): Same. It started out at GON exactly like it is here. Unfortunately, people over there just couldn't keep their comments to themselves and we had to remove comments altogether. Hopefully that won't happen here.

#5 - Location and contact information: Same

#6 - Mulitple gun: No rule here. One per post there (put in place in an attempt to weed out dealers).

#7 - Multiple posts: No rule here. Over there, one per day in the FOSS and a total of 5 per day in all (once agian in an attempt to weed out dealers).

That is pretty much it (I am doing this from memory, so forgive me if I forgot one).

The last word I will say on dealers is for those of you who say: "What is the big deal?". If you really feel that way, please PM me your address so I can come to your house and post advertisements for my business in your yard.
"That's different!" you say. I say not so. The owner of that site pays the money to keep it running. By having people coming in and essentially advertising their wares without paying him, they are "putting signs in his yard". It is his property, just like this site is Steve's. Steve has chosen to let dealers advertise for free and is offsetting the costs of the site by selling goods. That is his choice. Just like it is Steve B.'s choice to not allow it on his site (property).

That is the single most important principle that this country was founded on (personal property/personal liberty).

As I said before, I am in no way trying to start a flame war or some sort of rift between the two sites. In my humble opinion, I think it would be great if both sites continue to prosper. It is never a bad thing when there are more resources promoting the things that I love. I am just trying to set the record straight and provide a non-emotional response to some of the questions/concerns that I have seen.

The rules may not be all that much different but they allow for us to have a S&S. You say that the dealers are the reason you closed the S&S. Once again the majority of the people act right a few bad apples ruin it for everybody. What could have been done was to put a policy into place that stated, if you want to post multiple listings in one day you will be considered a dealer and will have to pay a small fee and do business in our dealer section. See now just the people that are not wanting to go by the rules are the only ones being punished! Not me! Not the people that posted in the other forums and wanted to sell or buy something every now and then! What ya'll did was let the non contributing members of the site ruin it for the people that really made that site what is was, a place to discuss the outdoors and other stuff that we southern guys and gals find interesting.

Do the sites still look that similar?

Oh and there are mods "over there" that judging by their Itrader numbers should be what you would call a "dealer".

 

[SteelRinger]

The rules may not be all that much different but they allow for us to have a S&S. You say that the dealers are the reason you closed the S&S. Once again the majority of the people act right a few bad apples ruin it for everybody. What could have been done was to put a policy into place that stated, if you want to post multiple listings in one day you will be considered a dealer and will have to pay a small fee and do business in our dealer section. See now just the people that are not wanting to go by the rules are the only ones being punished! Not me! Not the people that posted in the other forums and wanted to sell or buy something every now and then! What ya'll did was let the non contributing members of the site ruin it for the people that really made that site what is was, a place to discuss the outdoors and other stuff that we southern guys and gals find interesting.

Do the sites still look that similar?

Oh and there are mods "over there" that judging by their Itrader numbers should be what you would call a "dealer".

It was actually discussed to do just what you suggested, but the decision was made to not do it. Ultimately it is about the original intent. GON was started as a place to discuss the outdoors, not as a S&S site. It got to the point that the S&S was taking over.

This site was started as a S&S site. Again I congratulate Steve and Burdy for filling an opening when they saw it. Therein lies the difference. Different intents.

And to address the comment about I-Trader numbers, feedback or how many deals that were done has absolutely nothing to do with the classification of a "dealer" over there. Never did. Bob has over 10000 posts on the forum. Less than 25% of them are/were in the S&S section. Therefore, he is classified as a "contributing member who did a lot of swapping and selling". However, if you have 500 posts and 499 are in the S&S, you are not a contributing member. Therefore you are classified as a dealer.

See the difference?

 

[Dynamis]

Like I said, GON had to much micromanaging in place. Most sites such as this are self sufficient and don't require alot of governing and you can see how smoothly it operates. Rules 1,2 6 & 7 are enough to deter anyone from using the S&S due to the over-governing implementations they eek. I mean seriously, multiple firearms and multiple posts taboo? No wonder it caused so much stress.

 

[RIDDLE]

What I'm trying to say is that I feel like you "short changed" your members by not dealing with the problem. Thats all.

 

[Dynamis]

Ehh, I wouldn't worry about it honestly. ODT is now kicking along perfectly and is not micro managed. GON is catering to their Elite. I know a slew of people who even canceled their GON magazines.

 

[fattboyzz]

well I see it as I stated before .............. A whole lot of members got punished for the actions of a few !

sounds like political gun control to me

 

[Dynamis]

RNC, why does your status at GON show as "guest"?

 

[Powerhouse]

My problem with GON had nothing to do with the s/s, when it was shut down it came as no surprise to me. The rules were posted, just as they are here, very conspicuously so claiming to be unaware of them was no ecxuse. It was the price you had to pay to play over there.

Not long ago it was a place that you could go to and find the answer for nearly any question that you had on most any subject. People were more than willing to offer their expertise tp help you out. Somewhere along the line it became filled with the overly educated and holier than thou types whose opinions were more logical than yours could ever hope to be and should be taken as the gospel. Nevermind what the question was, you were rather quickly told why you had the wrong platform to begin with, your style of hunting was wrong, those bullets are inadequate, that scope is garbage, if you didn't spend $2,000 on that pistol it is junk. Then you were informed exactly what you should have/do to be exactly like them. And heaven forbid you should answer a question that they felt more qualified to answer than you!!! I was chastised on several occasions for giving someone "too much information because they may not be smart enough to use it correctly"!

My personal problem was not with the mods or the rules, but rather the cliques who would bully and browbeat others not in their circle with their opinions which were totally irrelevant to the question at hand. I am old enough to know that everyone has opinions and that I have the option to just ignore the preturbing ones, but after so long it just got old.

 

[itsthemarket]

My problem with GON had nothing to do with the s/s, when it was shut down it came as no surprise to me. The rules were posted, just as they are here, very conspicuously so claiming to be unaware of them was no ecxuse. It was the price you had to pay to play over there.

Not long ago it was a place that you could go to and find the answer for nearly any question that you had on most any subject. People were more than willing to offer their expertise tp help you out. Somewhere along the line it became filled with the overly educated and holier than thou types whose opinions were more logical than yours could ever hope to be and should be taken as the gospel. Nevermind what the question was, you were rather quickly told why you had the wrong platform to begin with, your style of hunting was wrong, those bullets are inadequate, that scope is garbage, if you didn't spend $2,000 on that pistol it is junk. Then you were informed exactly what you should have/do to be exactly like them. And heaven forbid you should answer a question that they felt more qualified to answer than you!!! I was chastised on several occasions for giving someone "too much information because they may not be smart enough to use it correctly"!

My personal problem was not with the mods or the rules, but rather the cliques who would bully and browbeat others not in their circle with their opinions which were totally irrelevant to the question at hand. I am old enough to know that everyone has opinions and that I have the option to just ignore the preturbing ones, but after so long it just got old.

The funny thing is that I think you just described every internet forum know to man...it's always that way to some extent. I still go to both forums - they're OK by me. Interesting topics on each.

 

[Shovelhead]

Biggest difference for myself is:

ODT has a great S&S
GON doesnt