Home Defense gun suggestions

[talkstosquirrels]

To answer the OPs Q, yes. The pump shotty 12ga. is the way to go for HD. I think for HD your probably not going to have to worry about re-loading a fully packed Mossberg 500 PErsuader in the cruiser edition. Nice little butler creek side folder on there and your set. IMHO, on of the BEST things about a pump SG for a no-gun totin home-owner is the unmistakable sound of a pump action SG. To me, it is the international language with no barriers. IT says: GTFO-OMHN! If they don't start running as fast as they can the other way, there is something seriously wrong with them and then you just s q u e e z e. Threat neutralized.

 

[zesty]

This is worth mentioning too... If you're helping them pick out a gun, please have them memorize the gun safety rules too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_safety

 

[MightySaucePan]

Kel tec Sub 2000 or dare I say Hi-point carbine in 9mm. Cheap to shoot, just as reliable as a pump. My GF wont shoot more than 2 or 3 rounds from my 12 guage and she cannot hit a clay because she is afraid of the recoil. Recoil will not be an issue. collateral damage is less than a shotgun and there are tons of great ammo options for what ever the situation requires.

 

[MMatt30]

For someone who probably won't train much if any and will probably leave it in a closet till its needed

In that situation the revolver is king.

 

[GAGunguy]

In that situation the revolver is king.

The Judge, with PDX, a grip mounted laser.

 

[Quick_1911]

Remington 870

This.

 

[gkatl]

Thanks for all the great advice, guys! I've now got plenty to discuss with my buddy and his wife (and they need to do a bit of reading as well on their own, it seems).

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If they are going to go with a shotgun, it's very important for them to review & if possible, improve their "passive security" i.e. deadbolt locks, MONITORED security system, dogs that will bark when people come onto the property, secur. cameras (if budget allows), gated entries, motion-activated secur. lights, etc.
Really they should do that anyway, but especially when using a long-gun for home defense. They are very easy to take away from someone who is not committed or trained in its use.
They work better for "fixed position defense"... like locking the bedroom door & calling/waiting on the police... not wandering through the house in the dark vs. unknown assailants.

Take them with you out to a range & make sure they know how to operate it.

Even better... find a local school & get them some training.
Or since shotguns aren't your specialty per se, find a local L.E. Officer who has been trained with shotguns & pay him a little cash for some expertise.

Many people buy guns for the peace of mind & sense of security that comes with having one in the house to ward off a feeling of helplessness but just like buying a plane won't make someone a pilot or buying a guitar won't make someone a musician, buying a gun doesn't make a person safe nor proficient.

This is a really well thought-out post. Thanks for this.

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I'm going to break away from the pack and suggest a rifle, not a shotgun. I understand that the objective is to defend at in-door distances. The shotgun does so admirably. It's also slow to reload, slow to deliver an accurate follow-up shots, and it's a very specialized weapon. A rifle, for my purposes, does what I would require in a shotgun and more allowing for longer range if necessary (better to have and not need than need and not have), quicker reloads and way faster follow up shots. The rifle will require more training to master, but the advantages are worth it IMO. I just flat-out prefer the precision oriented features of a carbine. That said, I just saw a nice Norinco SKS go for $200 + S&H. That'd get my vote over a scattergun.

As for this option, penetration would also be my concern. Moreover, the people and situation considered, I personally think they will be more comfortable with a shotty than a pistol or rifle.

For the person you describe, a firearm is a bad choice IMO. Without training, the gun is more of a liability than anything.

And I completely agree - I assure you I will stay on them to come with me to the range regularly and if I can get them to spend the money, take a class or two (or five). I'm all about training - and agree that without it a firearm is a huge liability.

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Pumps are recommended because they're easy to operate, easy to maintain, they're reliable and still provide quick reload.

I'd definitely look into a 20 gauge also. Less recoil may be good for the wife. It'll still drop a bad guy with plenty of penetration too. Just remember, birdshot is for the birds, buckshot is for badguys.

Another option is a .357 revolver. Revolvers are also easy to operate, easy to maintain and reliable. If recoil is a problem, load it with .38 special which will also do the job. I would not get a snubbie for a stay at home gun.

Definitely going to tell them to consider a 20ga. My buddy is kind of set on a 12ga, but these are excellent points and hopefully he'll consider the option.




Thanks again! You guys rock my socks off!

 

[ArmedinAtlanta]

I think we need a little more info to make a truly informed decision. I don't know where these people live, but using a rifle like the SKS for home defense could be really irresponsible. In my neighborhood, there are usually at least a couple of innocent bystanders milling around; moreover, the houses are relatively close together. It seems like a 7.62 round would create the potential for more collateral damage while defending the home than would a load of #00 buckshot, which will likely stop when it hits a relatively solid surface (hopefully the bad guy.) My HD shotgun holds 5rds of 12ga, and there is no distance in my home over about 7yds, so I really don't worry about reload time... If I can't drop someone with 5 tries with the 12ga, I probably don't deserve to keep my TV. And that's assuming that actual hits are what will dissuade the would-be home invader; I'm not totally sure that it would take more than the deafening boom, the blinding muzzle flash, and the REALLY bright tac-light in the eyes to get someone turned around.

Add'ly, the pistol or pistol-caliber carbine, while it would likely reduce the chances of killing the neighbors vs. a rifle, gives up significant stopping power to the 12ga. A lot of folks scream about the stopping power gains on a .45acp vs. 9mm, but the difference in stopping power with a 12ga vs. a .45acp is greatly more significant than the difference between .45acp and 9mm. Likely, if you have to actually shoot someone to stop them from proceeding deeper into your home, you're dealing with a relatively dedicated criminal. It seems to me that the 12ga is the better answer to this dedication than a handgun round. Obviously, there is no replacing the handgun in the night stand or end table for quick action, but my first grab for things that go bump in the night is my 12ga.

Finally, one poster talked about passive security systems, and I have to say that this is the best point I've seen on this thread. My primary passive security are a 75lb pit bull terrier and a 70lb Rhodesian Ridgeback/ Lab mix. I had an attempted break-in once that ended very soon after the jackasses got up on the porch and heard those dogs going frickin' nuts. Hardening windows, entry doors, etc. is also a good idea because, while inexpensive security doors, bars, etc. won't hold off a home invader indefinitely, they do give you enough time to get to the shotgun, call the police, and get right, mentally, with what is about to happen.

 

[philwil68]

I would say have them build an mg nest at the end of the hallway, and mount a mini gun on a turret

 

[zesty]

I assume they'll be looking at used shotguns. HD models can be found in their range, but a regular shotgun can be modified easy enough. First, open the tube and take out the plug if there is one. You're only allowed so many shells for hunting so manufacturers include a dowel to limit how many you can load. There's lots of info online on how to cut a barrel down, just be sure it is over 18 inches. An open choked barrel is best if it's not going to be cut.

I'd recommend a wood stock. Then, you can chop the butt-stock and add a thick recoil pad. You probably ought to talk to someone with experience about what final length to have. You don't want it too long for her or too short for him. Personally, I'd be more worried about her than him though. Of course, there's other stock options but I think that's the cheap easy way.

The Remmington 870 has been around for a long time because it's a good shotgun. I'll throw in the Browning BPS and Ithaca M37 also. They're bottom eject which is nice if one is a lefty. Also, they won't throw a shell off a hallway wall to distract them. I think Mossbergs have the safety on top which is nice and easy to find for anyone.

Now to kick the dead horse again, a revolver eliminates the above issues.