Input on VZ58 muzzle devices?

[TheGman]

Thanks much sir. I do recall ordering a brake from CNC , getting the opposite thread but they immediately sent the right one and I returned the wrong one

 

[strongtactics]

To answer the OP, I purchased a muzzle brake from CNC Warrior for one of my VZ2008s and had to advise them that it was a 2008 because of what romilayu mentioned above.

This is the one:
Knurled Compensator - M14 X 1 RH

$29.99-looks good and works well, IMO.

Not to hijack the thread but...I have a couple of 2008 like em both very much. For the VZ58 owners, what's the biggest difference other than 3x the price?
Certainly I understand collectibility like a real FN FAL versus a clone.

I think the finish is nicer, but I believe the big 2 things (could be wrong) is the VZ58 has the proper bolt carrier (tabbed) that should never experience the dreaded trigger "gremlin." If you have not heard about this, please google "VZ2008 trigger gremlin" and you will find plenty of info. Also, the VZ58 has a chrome lined barrel and the VZ2008 does not. I think those are the main differences.

The one thing that I have found - coincidentally, by the way - is that the receivers do not have the same geometry. The angles of the milling cuts from the top to the bottom are different. I bought the FAB Defense VFR-VZ and had to spend about a half hour with a file to get it to mate up.

Also, according to CNC Warrior, the 2008's have different threading than the original VZ58's.

Correct!
From the product I listed earlier:

NOTE: PLEASE CHOOSE YOUR RIFLE FROM THE DROP DOWN BOX. WE HAVE FOUND THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF VZ2008 RIFLES HAVE LARGER THAN STANDARD THREADS AND THIS COMPENSATOR WILL NEED TO BE RE-THREADED BEFORE SHIPMENT TO INSURE THAT IT FITS YOUR RIFLE. WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF YOUR RIFLE IS ONE OF THOSE WITH LARGER THREADS BUT WE WILL WORK WITH YOU TO INSURE THAT YOU GET THE PROPER COMPENSATOR.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

To answer the OP, I purchased a muzzle brake from CNC Warrior for one of my VZ2008s and had to advise them that it was a 2008 because of what romilayu mentioned above.

This is the one:
Knurled Compensator - M14 X 1 RH

$29.99-looks good and works well, IMO.

I think the finish is nicer, but I believe the big 2 things (could be wrong) is the VZ58 has the proper bolt carrier (tabbed) that should never experience the dreaded trigger "gremlin." If you have not heard about this, please google "VZ2008 trigger gremlin" and you will find plenty of info. Also, the VZ58 has a chrome lined barrel and the VZ2008 does not. I think those are the main differences.

I did a Google search for that and only received a few hits, all of which referenced "the gremlin issue" but none of which said what it was. Would you care to explain?

 

[TheGman]

Well heck now I gotta look for a real VZ58...

 

[strongtactics]

I did a Google search for that and only received a few hits, all of which referenced "the gremlin issue" but none of which said what it was. Would you care to explain?

This is apparently the cause:


The VZ58 "gremlin" is a condition that can result in the striker not being caught by the sear and following the carrier home, leaving the rifle uncocked.
The "gremlin" shows itself when for one of several reasons, the sear re-connects to the disconnector after the carrier has disconnected them during its rearward travel.

The main reason, is that during the carrier assembly's rearward travel, the striker must push the sear back down in order to cross it. If the sear is pushed down as far as it gets pulled down by the trigger, it will pass the hook on the disconnector, allowing the disconnector hook to spring back up and re-connect with striker. The only reason this does not happen every time, is that there is a small amount of overtravel, meaning that the trigger/disconnector travel slightly farther than the sear must in order to release sear. If the rifle were to have zero overtravel, a re-connect would occur every time. What makes it occur when there is some overtravel, is that when the sear is pushed down it has inertia and travels farther than the striker actually forces it. In summary, if the sears inertia outweighs the overtravel + sear spring pressure a re-connect will be caused.
The other reason can be from the shooter. Many shooters, albeit unknown to them, will actually partially release and re-pull the trigger during recoil. This action would not be noticeable if it weren't for the fact that it can, in affected vz58 rifles, exascerbate the lack of overtravel and cause the "gremlin" to appear. This explains why some shooters experience the problem more frequently, even with different rifles than others.

When a re-connect occurs during rearward travel, it stays re-connected until the carrier hits the disconnector again on the way forward, the problem is that by that time, the striker has already crossed sear and is on its way to following carrier home, resulting in an uncocked rifle.


More information:


What is a "tabbed" carrier and how does it fix this problem?
A "tabbed" carrier, is an original bolt carrier, that has had a tab of steel welded to it, extending the disconnector lump forward. It fixes the problem completely by extending the lump forward far enough, that during the carrier's forward travel, it will hit the disconnector before the striker crosses the sear, so even if a re-connect happens another disconnect will happen before it is too late, and the sear will be at home to catch the striker and cock the rifle.

Why don't the Czechs have this problem on the original rifles?
The original rifles have an autosear, which holds the striker rearward until the carrier finishes it's forward travel. Therefore the striker cannot follow carrier home, and by the time the autosear has released the carrier will have already disconnected the trigger from the sear allowing the sear to return to its original postion and catch the striker.

What rifles come with "tabbed" carriers?
All D-Technik/Czech Small Arms rifles
some early century rifles.
I believe CSA(Czech Small Arms) has a patent protecting rifles with "tabbed" carriers

There are a lot of rifles out there without "tabbed" carriers how important can it really be?
How important is it that your rifle always goes bang?
Although the problem is sometimes infrequent it is always there and can manifest at any time, most likely when it will hurt the most.
It can be made even less frequent by increasing overtravel and or sear spring pressure, but both of those solutions are detrimental to trigger feel and neither completely solves the issue.




The good news is that a welder with some knowledge can fix this issue fairly easily. Also, there were (possibly still are) a few individuals on ar15.com and other websites that offered the service of making this correction (they call it "tabbing" the carrier) and it wasn't too costly. Either way, there is a solution to the problem and it doesn't involve hundreds of dollars.

 

[BillMe45]

I've also used CNC Warrior for a 2008, great products and really the best source for the M14 right hand threaded muzzle devices.
I used one of these
Derita Menace Brake w/ detent notches

 

[SinFin01]

I have a VZ 2008 and a VZ 58 (ORF kit with Czech everything else). I've never had the "Gremlin" problem with either. I've heard that CAI used Green Mountain barrels (non-chrome) and that they were actually more accurate than the Chrome-lined. I honestly can't tell the difference (both are very accurate).
I've never have a FTF or FTE with the VZ 2008 (or 58, for that matter). I've "updated" mine with Black CSA poly furniture and FAB defense grip and shock-absorbing stock. Along with CSA scope mount, ambi-mag release and tactical bolt release. I clean it religiously after every shooting.

I really like my SKS's, and the AK 47, but the VZ would be my go-to 7.62x39 over anything else.