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Pediatrician questions

Medical profession ( I typed slowly too- and btw med profession includes doctors) cause more deaths to kids than guns do annually. 1.5% for medical and .04 for firearms.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/fatality.pdf
Page 4
" Medical neglect accounted for 1.5 percent of
fatalities."

Are you advising all your patients of this too, or just the convenient and popular one about those awful guns?

I'm currently advising all my patients not to take medical or statistical advise from you. Medical neglect is NOT the neglect of the medical profession but the neglect of the guardian to seek timely and appropropriate medical care for a child with an obvious need. Here's a more lengthy explanation.

Medical Neglect
Medical neglect encompasses a parent or guardian's denial of or delay in seeking needed health care for a child as described below:

Denial of health care-the failure to provide or to allow needed care as recommended by a competent health care professional for a physical injury, illness, medical condition, or impairment. The CAPTA amendments of 1996 and 2003 contained no Federal requirement for a parent to provide any medical treatment for a child if that treatment is against the parent's religious beliefs. However, CAPTA also designates that there is no requirement that a State either find or be prohibited from finding abuse or neglect in cases where parents or legal guardians act in accordance with their religious beliefs. While CAPTA stipulates that all States must give authority to CPS to pursue any legal actions necessary 1) to ensure medical care or treatment to prevent or to remedy serious harm to a child or 2) to prevent the withholding of medically indicated treatment from a child with a life-threatening condition (except in the cases of withholding treatment from disabled infants), all determinations will be done on a case by case basis within the sole discretion of each State.21
Delay in health care-the failure to seek timely and appropriate medical care for a serious health problem that any reasonable person would have recognized as needing professional medical attention. Examples of a delay in health care include not getting appropriate preventive medical or dental care for a child, not obtaining care for a sick child, or not following medical recommendations. Not seeking adequate mental health care also falls under this category. A lack or delay in health care may occur because the family does not have health insurance. Individuals who are uninsured often have compromised health because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at more advanced disease stages, and, once diagnosed, receive less therapeutic care.23


Now, that graph lists the top 6 causes of accidental deaths. I never said gun related deaths were Top 6. Said it was top 10 in certain age groups. The point is still plenty valid.

I remain amazed that so many of the folks on this forum continue to pontificate that IT IS A BAD THING FOR A DOCTOR TO DISCUSS KEEPING UNLOADED GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN. Say that to yourself a few times and see just how ridiculous it sounds.
 
The doc said:
I remain amazed that so many of the folks on this forum continue to pontificate that IT IS A BAD THING FOR A DOCTOR TO DISCUSS KEEPING UNLOADED GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN. Say that to yourself a few times and see just how ridiculous it sounds

Doc, I realize how you could think it sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure I'd argue the point with you on the face of it.

My
argument, which seems to completely escape you, is not that I disagree with the message. It's not (in my case anyway) that I think the messenger is or isn't properly trained to deliver said message. My problem is far simpler than that. It's just that I feel personally that such uninvited commentary on your part is an intrusion into my privacy and as such is completely unwelcome. Why is that difficult to comprehend?

And I've seen your answer numerous time, i.e., you feel basically that doctors are now the guardian of public safety and as such they're entitled to proceed as such. We'll forever disagree on this, and I'll assure you I feel no less passionately about it than you do. Following this line of reasoning by the way, where would the stopping point be? Be honest; there is really nothing that couldn't be extrapolated to fall under "public safety" following this concept.

Just a thought, and I'm certain it wouldn't be nearly proactive enough to suit you, but a simple handout with all these things itemized thereon might be a more tolerable approach. Perhaps a quick "take a look at this when you have time" to go along with it. I'd still wad it up on the way out the door but at least I wouldn't feel quite so personally violated.

I know that you feel empowered to continue this practice by what you feel is the greater good, but you should have at least learned from this thread that your actions are pissing off a lot of gun owners. And it seems that gun owners are the primary target of your message. Remember, most people see a doctor as being too authoritarian to challenge so they may not show you their true feelings. But heck, you're on a mission so you don't care about that anyway, do you?
 
The doc said:
I remain amazed that so many of the folks on this forum continue to pontificate that IT IS A BAD THING FOR A DOCTOR TO DISCUSS KEEPING UNLOADED GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN. Say that to yourself a few times and see just how ridiculous it sounds

Doc, I realize how you could think it sounds ridiculous. I'm not sure I'd argue the point with you on the face of it.

My
argument, which seems to completely escape you, is not that I disagree with the message. It's not (in my case anyway) that I think the messenger is or isn't properly trained to deliver said message. My problem is far simpler than that. It's just that I feel personally that such uninvited commentary on your part is an intrusion into my privacy and as such is completely unwelcome. Why is that difficult to comprehend?

And I've seen your answer numerous time, i.e., you feel basically that doctors are now the guardian of public safety and as such they're entitled to proceed as such. We'll forever disagree on this, and I'll assure you I feel no less passionately about it than you do. Following this line of reasoning by the way, where would the stopping point be? Be honest; there is really nothing that couldn't be extrapolated to fall under "public safety" following this concept.

Just a thought, and I'm certain it wouldn't be nearly proactive enough to suit you, but a simple handout with all these things itemized thereon might be a more tolerable approach. Perhaps a quick "take a look at this when you have time" to go along with it. I'd still wad it up on the way out the door but at least I wouldn't feel quite so personally violated.

I know that you feel empowered to continue this practice by what you feel is the greater good, but you should have at least learned from this thread that your actions are pissing off a lot of gun owners. And it seems that gun owners are the primary target of your message. Remember, most people see a doctor as being too authoritarian to challenge so they may not show you their true feelings. But heck, you're on a mission so you don't care about that anyway, do you?


What level of training does one require to be able to adequately advise somone on the dangers of children and loaded guns?

Agree that we'll have to agree to disagree. Got no problem with that. Life is more fun when we don't all think alike.

Agree with you on the handouts and we actually do give out handouts. We kill the hell out of some trees with handouts to parents on these issues as we know (and studies have shown) less than half of what we say and advise is retained.

And yes I do care about my patients feelings. A lot of gun owners like to say they'd get pissed off, like to say they'd storm out of an office telling the doc to go to hell, but in reality would likely see nothing wrong with the way I approach it and how we discuss it as I'm not doing so in an authoritarian/confrontational tone. As you (or someone in this thread wisely suggested) it comes up in a conversational tone as I go over a number of the issues I've mentioned here. I telll my patients all the time to question me if they think I'm wrong, don't hesitate to ask me to clarify something, and that I WANT them engaged in our conversation and not just a bump on a log being talked to. I want them well educated on their conditions and encourage them to become educated and research their questions/conditions and not to hesitate to ask questions/suggest treatment options/etc. Doesn't bother me a bit. You'd probably be shocked at how NON-authoritarian I am in my practice. (this is going to come off as bragging, self serving, and tooting my own horn . . I realize that) May be why I've been voted the best primary care doc in NW GA (four county area) for the past 3 years running by the readers of the local paper. I'm doing something right up here!

Graybeard, I'd wager you and I would hit it off well if we met and if you were my patient you'd be one of the ones I spend 15 minutes talking guns/hunting/shooting with and then scramble to handle the medical issue the last 5 minutes of the visit!
 
I know I'm a little late here but I have to go with the Doc (he happens to be my Dr. as well) on what he is saying. He would be the last person to place judgement on gun owners and the first to help anyone with their safety and their families safety in any way he could. If he offers gun safety tips to a patient and saves one life then I would have to believe it was worth it. I don't think he has to be a NRA certified gun safety instructor. I know I'm not and I offer safety tips to people all the time. I knew MCG DAWG before I became a patient and I can tell you that he is the kind of person to help others whenever he can. Having a medical degree didn't make him the type of man he is but the type of man he is did make him the Doctor he is. Like he said, there is a reason he has won Best Primary Care Doc in NW Ga 3 years in a row, I'm sure next year will make it 4.
 
I know I'm a little late here but I have to go with the Doc (he happens to be my Dr. as well) on what he is saying. He would be the last person to place judgement on gun owners and the first to help anyone with their safety and their families safety in any way he could. If he offers gun safety tips to a patient and saves one life then I would have to believe it was worth it. I don't think he has to be a NRA certified gun safety instructor. I know I'm not and I offer safety tips to people all the time. I knew MCG DAWG before I became a patient and I can tell you that he is the kind of person to help others whenever he can. Having a medical degree didn't make him the type of man he is but the type of man he is did make him the Doctor he is. Like he said, there is a reason he has won Best Primary Care Doc in NW Ga 3 years in a row, I'm sure next year will make it 4.

Thanks for the kind words. Where do I send the check? :cool:
 
I'm currently advising all my patients not to take medical or statistical advise from you. Medical neglect is NOT the neglect of the medical profession but the neglect of the guardian to seek timely and appropropriate medical care for a child with an obvious need. Here's a more lengthy explanation.

Medical Neglect
Medical neglect encompasses a parent or guardian's denial of or delay in seeking needed health care for a child as described below:

Denial of health care-the failure to provide or to allow needed care as recommended by a competent health care professional for a physical injury, illness, medical condition, or impairment. The CAPTA amendments of 1996 and 2003 contained no Federal requirement for a parent to provide any medical treatment for a child if that treatment is against the parent's religious beliefs. However, CAPTA also designates that there is no requirement that a State either find or be prohibited from finding abuse or neglect in cases where parents or legal guardians act in accordance with their religious beliefs. While CAPTA stipulates that all States must give authority to CPS to pursue any legal actions necessary 1) to ensure medical care or treatment to prevent or to remedy serious harm to a child or 2) to prevent the withholding of medically indicated treatment from a child with a life-threatening condition (except in the cases of withholding treatment from disabled infants), all determinations will be done on a case by case basis within the sole discretion of each State.21
Delay in health care-the failure to seek timely and appropriate medical care for a serious health problem that any reasonable person would have recognized as needing professional medical attention. Examples of a delay in health care include not getting appropriate preventive medical or dental care for a child, not obtaining care for a sick child, or not following medical recommendations. Not seeking adequate mental health care also falls under this category. A lack or delay in health care may occur because the family does not have health insurance. Individuals who are uninsured often have compromised health because they receive less preventive care, are diagnosed at more advanced disease stages, and, once diagnosed, receive less therapeutic care.23


Now, that graph lists the top 6 causes of accidental deaths. I never said gun related deaths were Top 6. Said it was top 10 in certain age groups. The point is still plenty valid.

I remain amazed that so many of the folks on this forum continue to pontificate that IT IS A BAD THING FOR A DOCTOR TO DISCUSS KEEPING UNLOADED GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF CHILDREN. Say that to yourself a few times and see just how ridiculous it sounds.[/QUOTE


You do go on in your answers good grief take a breath.....
Trying to deny that your field causes more deaths than guns or that fault belongs somewhere else is wishful thinking and dishonest .
 
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Heres some fun facts for you doc 98,000 deaths from medical errors in the US EACH YEAR according to the Institute of Medicine. Staggering.

Now how many people were killed by guns? And how many of those were children?

Sounds like your profession is the one that needs to be schooled and nannied.

This article was in the wall street journal, written by a surgeon.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444620104578008263334441352.html
 
I know I'm a little late here but I have to go with the Doc (he happens to be my Dr. as well) on what he is saying. He would be the last person to place judgement on gun owners and the first to help anyone with their safety and their families safety in any way he could. If he offers gun safety tips to a patient and saves one life then I would have to believe it was worth it. I don't think he has to be a NRA certified gun safety instructor. I know I'm not and I offer safety tips to people all the time. I knew MCG DAWG before I became a patient and I can tell you that he is the kind of person to help others whenever he can. Having a medical degree didn't make him the type of man he is but the type of man he is did make him the Doctor he is. Like he said, there is a reason he has won Best Primary Care Doc in NW Ga 3 years in a row, I'm sure next year will make it 4.

HUNTS4FOOD, I'm very certain that the doc is more than highly competent and all the nice things you say about him are true.

Except one little thing.

By doing what he does he is absolutely "placing judgment on gun owners". He is judging them to be incapable of doing what they should be doing regarding firearm safety in the home. If that isn't judgment then please help me define it.
 
HUNTS4FOOD, I'm very certain that the doc is more than highly competent and all the nice things you say about him are true.

Except one little thing.

By doing what he does he is absolutely "placing judgment on gun owners". He is judging them to be incapable of doing what they should be doing regarding firearm safety in the home. If that isn't judgment then please help me define it.

So when the news is predicting icy roads and tells everyone to be careful driving with the icy conditions are they being judgemental, judging people to be incapable of driving?
 
So when the news is predicting icy roads and tells everyone to be careful driving with the icy conditions are they being judgemental, judging people to be incapable of driving?

No, they're trying to sell ad space.

You can quickly change channels or turn off the TV if you're offended. Little harder to change doctors.

But the greater point is that this is what you expect from a TV station. It's their job to disseminate news, weather and entertainment.
 
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