thats why its important to own a SECOND ADDITION BLACK LAW DICTIONARY because it shows the definition of the words our fore fathers used. plus it has CASE LAWS you can use for reference that prove the meaning of the word. the new book they have changed the Definition of the words to create more FROUD!
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Training Before Obtaining Carry Permit?
- Thread starter maddog995
- Start date
We certainly agree on the definitions. Still doesn't answer the "where do we go from here" question though. We can sit back and complain by saying "but we are right and your wrong" all day long. Doesn't seem to be having any effect whatsoever. What would be effective? Haven't heard a good answer from anyone on that. Donate money to gun right orgs? We've all been doing that. Donate to politicians? How has that worked out for us? Demand satisfaction from the legislative branch? What good has that done us? Keep beating head on same brick walls? That's what we are all doing now. Would be nice if we could all come to a consensus on what the purpose of the 2nd Amendment is, what we need to achieve that purpose and draw some lines in the sand with some solidarity. Don't even give the opposition a seat at the table. Let's decide for ourselves and then tell them what we will and won't accept and then back it up. Right now they are dividing and conquering while playing on apathy. And it's effective.
I it happens in my County & i have proof! i'm going to the sherif & have them arrested for treason. all its going to take is one hanging! you have to have 2 witness' to this act against our right's bill clinton (N. KOREA) is a traitor you file charges in his county and the sherif will arrest him then congress deside's hang im, or put him jail for 5 yrs w/ $10,000 fine. THIS IS WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAVE FOR GOTEN)
And so ends this conversation
I used to teach the state mandated class for Concealed Pistol License applicants in Michigan. The law mandates that the NRA "Personal Protection In The Home" is the official course. At least it was when I was there. It might have changed to something else now.
So here's some random musings at 0400 about the issue.
1. The concealed carry law as it exists in Michigan was passed in 2000. Before that, every county and city could pass it's own regulations and you took a risk driving across the state that you wouldn't be pulled over and arrested with the gun that was licensed in your town.
2. To get the law in 2000 passed, compromises had to be made. The inclusion of the training requirement was one of those compromises.
3. It's expensive to get a CPL in Michigan.
"Such persons will enroll into a qualified Michigan Basic Pistol Safety Training Class ($150), pay the requisite CPL Application Fee ($105), purchase a suitable defensive handgun ($400 - $800), and acquire a litany of accessories (e.g. holster, practice and defensive ammunition, cleaning kit, and etc.) that can escalate the total "cost of entry" into this new lifestyle into a figure north of $1,000 with little effort."
Source "Ricks Firearms Academy" This is the Rick Ector who appears on NRA TV every now and then.
http://www.legallyarmedindetroit.com/2011/03/detroit-michigan-ccw-class-three-hidden.html
The class is usually 8-10 hrs long. It has to include an hour of discussion with an Attorney or someone certified in the use of Deadly Force. I knew instructors who'd hire a cop to come in and just read the law. Then when the questions were asked about the law, the instructor would answer them and the cop would go home.
You have to show proof that you took the course. You can do it the hard way and take the course and pass the test or you can find someone who will sell you a certificate of completion for a few bucks. There's a small black market for that. It's illegal but only if you get caught.
There's no real quality control for instructors. Hopefully, you get the entire 8 hour class you pay for.
The cost of the class + the cost of the license is a barrier to entry for a lot of people who live in the lower end of the income brackets.
A person who is a retired cop or a veteran should not be assumed to be knowledgeable in the safe handling of firearms. So many people spend their entire careers in the military without firing a gun more than the yearly qualification requirement. The same goes for cops. Cops I know don't practice if the City isn't paying the bill for the ammo and range time.
Making those two groups exempt splits the voter base. You'll have a block of people who don't give a darn about the issue once you put them into a special class of citizen because of an old job they had.
I've never sold a gun to someone (in a retail setting) who didn't want to learn how to shoot it. There are many places in the state where you can get training if you want it.
If I had a say in the matter, I'd say that we continue to leave it up to the individual to obtain the training they need and not make it mandatory in state law. Rick Ector charges $150 an hour because he spreads the cost of materials, range time and classroom rent between all of the people in his class. And because he's an NRA instructor who according to the Michigan State Law is qualified to teach.
But what if you had someone throw into the law that the only people who can teach the class you are required to take is someone who served in Army or Navy Special Forces.
Now you've really limited the number of available instructors and the price of the classes are going to go up too.
I firmly believe that the training requirement in Michigan was put there to delay or prevent peoples ability to obtain a CPL. Someone who could afford the license and the gun may not be able to take the time off from work and pay for the class. And since Michigan anti-gun laws were almost all written during Jim Crow, I'll give you three guesses who that's going to affect.
Anyway, glad to answer any questions if you have any.
Thanks for the perspective. Asinine solution. From where I sit I see those trying to protect the 2nd Amendment constantly on defense and losing ground in small increments. Frustrating. I see a lot of different opinions, complaining about how we are right and they are wrong, and a general lack of effective action. I just wonder if there is not more effective actions we can take? I would love to see the 2nd Amendment defined appropriately by the courts so gov has some hard and fast lines in the sand they cannot cross.
Regardless of grammar; I'll be interested to see what actual action people take when they start banging on doors.
