When is Deadly Force justified during a riot?

[Apollo]

While that it certainly true whenever I offer to host a crawfish boil it's amazing how many wannabe's line up.

I'm far from Cajun, but I've gotten pretty good at boils. What I hate is people not utilizing the sweet breads out of them or just breaking the tail off and throwing away the rest... Tsk tsk.

 

[Bear44]

Who gives a **** about a judge and jury? That's the last thing ill be thinking about before I pull the trigger. You have to be alive to be judged!! Doh!!

I'm sure that there are quite a few people that are behind bars right now that wish they had thought a little more about it before they pulled the trigger. I'm talking about WAY before they pulled the trigger. Like, say, now!

Why do you think that making a clear decision about legality and staying alive are mutually exclusive?

 

[Bear44]

Again, that is where we disagree. I just don't think anyone is sitting at a window sill with a rioter in their cross hairs thinking "I'm legal, it's go time!". Legality in life and death situations only comes up AFTER the fact.
Bear, I realize you are trying to have an academic discussion about a particular SHTF scenario but you are crossing the line from what is legal, and what is reality, in a life & death situation. If the two cross paths, it's coincidence.
I would never shoot or not shoot someone based on what is legal. I will shoot someone when and only when I think I am saving my life or that of another, period. There may be a situation where I'd be legally right to shoot someone and wouldn't and vice versa. I'm not going to pretend to have a handle on the myriad of scenarios and laws that would apply or not, as to be blunt.... I don't care. I don't say that in a cavalier fashion either, I say that because my life is either endanger or not. The "law" doesn't get to dictate when I personally get to protect myself when I feel threatened. "The law" is not there to evaluate the situation. I am. The jury can decide if I was 'right'.

I agree, but again, you are talking about yourself. You have seen in these threads folks that would shoot into that crowed and claim they were in fear for their life. Then be outraged when they got convicted of manslaughter. Understanding the law on an academic basis can and does effect decisions. Military personnel and LE deal with those decisions every day and they are held responsible for the decisions they make. So are civilians. Clearly identifying when it would be legal BEFOREHAND is part of the training.

 

[Bear44]

Your implication (I think) is that people should NOT shoot if they feel their life is threatened but it would be against the law. Correct?
If I'm threatened and don't shoot, plan B is roll up and die. I have no intention of ever going to plan B.

Oh hell no that is not what I'm implying! If I felt that way, why am I planning on being in my OP locked and loaded if the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict? I'm just trying to figure out when that fear would be justified in the eyes of the law during a riot.

Seriously, I carry EVERY DAY for a reason. The issue is that I'm not clear about when following the law would give up to much tactical advantage during a riot. Like Ken said in an earlier post, the laws concerning self defense apply regardless if it's one on one or a riot. That means the line between legal self defense and dead is even thinner than normal and requires even MORE forethought. If I think I'm about to die, someone else is gong down first, but I would like to avoid a felony conviction in the process if possible.

 

[Apollo]

I'm sure that there are quite a few people that are behind bars right now that wish they had thought a little more about it before they pulled the trigger. I'm talking about WAY before they pulled the trigger. Like, say, now!

Why do you think that making a clear decision about legality and staying alive are mutually exclusive?

I don't think we are seeing this eye to eye. It's like you are pre meditating to kill someone. I understand you being prepared about legal issues but those two things are played in order, staying alive then legality. The people you are referring too that are thinking about it are alive, period. Lets say you get shot and survive and your family didnt. you will be thinking "I messed up" you have all the regret in the world, for what? You were worried about going to jail?

 

[Bear44]

I don't think we are seeing this eye to eye. It's like you are pre meditating to kill someone. I understand you being prepared about legal issues but those two things are played in order, staying alive then legality. The people you are referring too that are thinking about it are alive, period. Lets say you get shot and survive and your family didnt. you will be thinking "I messed up" you have all the regret in the world, for what? You were worried about going to jail?

Or, my family will be out of harms way (because they will be) and I am alive when it's all over, but have killed someone because of unjustifiable fear and go to jail for about 25 years. I might as well be dead anyway. Wouldn't clarity of mind on what you will do in a riot be a lot better?

Do you really think that considering when deadly force would be legally justified before an incident begins is inappropriate? Really? Seriously?

 

[Bioshock]

Has anyone considered this? Let's hope this is nothing more than an interesting conversation, but understanding the legalities may be very important to some of us very soon.

You've got rioters on the street outside your home or business. What action by the rioters would justify your use of deadly force?

When they step on my new sneakers.

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Ca---Caw! ca---caw!!!!!

 

[Tony2X]

lolwut

 

[Bioshock]

When they step on my new sneakers.

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Ca---Caw! ca---caw!!!!!

lolwut

 

[rugerceltics13]

Watch the video again. They were firing at random rioters well before the car pulled up.

what u saw was only 1 instance of a drive by shooting. there were several b4 that was not shown in that video. there's a documentary on the l.a. riots that history channel did a few yrs ago, show much more footage from that incident