.357SIG: What’s the point of this cartridge?

[MaconGuns]

I don’t use .380 because it doesn’t meet my personal, minimum criteria for a self-defense cartridge. In addition, the .380 has the exact same diameter as the 9mm, so there is not a gain in capacity. In fact, the vast majority of .380’s are single-stack and would be a serious capacity loss to the 9mm and .357SIG handguns I carry. Also, your statement that .380 has less recoil is false in most cases. Most .380’s are blowback operated and have a snappy, sharp recoil that isn’t conducive to quick follow-up shots in those lightweight, compact platforms.

The 9mm and .357SIG are so close in modern performance that the loss of capacity, added recoil, and wear and tear on the firearm negates the negligible performance increase of the .357SIG. However, if you perceive that the .357SIG gives you an advantage, then that added confidence is an actual advantage. Press on.

Blanket statements may not be totally directed at you but for all in the thread

I agree with you most of the time. However I do not see how you can compare this apple to that orange.
Since we are going with a base 9mm because the main arguments are recoil, shot placement and follow up shots compared to pushing a bullet as fast as we can, here are a few internet numbers that may vary slightly according to certain variables.

357 magnum 125 grain Gold Dot 4 inch barrel 1450 fps ( factory load )
357 SIG 125 grain Gold Dot ( ? barrel ) 1475 fps ( Underwood)
9mm 124 grain Gold Dot ( ? barrel ) 1150 fps ( factory load )
10mm 135 grain HP (? barrel ) 1600 fps (Underwood)

I would say a difference of 300 fps is a pretty big difference. FPS is one reason some people want to shoot +P+ ammo out of a 9mm and compare it to other calibers yet then complain they want less recoil?

Here is the +P+ Underwood 9mm 124 grain Gold Dot 1300 fps. Still 150 fps slower with a lot more recoil and stress on a 9mm barrel. Whats the point of +P+ should be the name of this thread when you can just buy a 357 SIG.

Not always but most of the time I try to look at both sides and also use common sense. Rather than load my 9mms ( and yes I own more 9mm than any other caliber I have) with +P+ (+++) why not just shoot a 357 SIG?

There are 45 guys, 40 guys, 9mm guys, 460 guys ect... All can give you reasons why one is the best or better round. To me it breaks down to numbers on paper AND test done. Watch videos that compare 9mm to 357 sig in penetration. Watch 44 mag vs 357 mag for hunting, watch accuracy test 308 vs 6.5. This is the information age so why abandon information?

There were test I was planning on conducting myself but Paul has done the ground work by shooting through clothes, skin, bone + muscle ( no gel crap ). Others have shot through cars, wood, bricks ect... This is where I gather my info. Some of these guys have way more backround in firearms than most people here. ( not all but, I dont see anyone here linking their video tests) I can link and have linked several videos SHOWING the effects of this vs that. Dont tell me show me a video where 9mm beats a 357 magnum in "Incapacitating Power" since 'knock down power" doesnt exist .

Today I carried a small 9mm for comfort and how I dressed. Doesnt change my opinion on what is a better round. I decided this on comfort not stopping power. Im still wanting a small double stack SIG in 357.

 

[cmshoot]

Blanket statements may not be totally directed at you but for all in the thread

I agree with you most of the time. However I do not see how you can compare this apple to that orange.
Since we are going with a base 9mm because the main arguments are recoil, shot placement and follow up shots compared to pushing a bullet as fast as we can, here are a few internet numbers that may vary slightly according to certain variables.

357 magnum 125 grain Gold Dot 4 inch barrel 1450 fps ( factory load )
357 SIG 125 grain Gold Dot ( ? barrel ) 1475 fps ( Underwood)
9mm 124 grain Gold Dot ( ? barrel ) 1150 fps ( factory load )
10mm 135 grain HP (? barrel ) 1600 fps (Underwood)

I would say a difference of 300 fps is a pretty big difference. FPS is one reason some people want to shoot +P+ ammo out of a 9mm and compare it to other calibers yet then complain they want less recoil?

Here is the +P+ Underwood 9mm 124 grain Gold Dot 1300 fps. Still 150 fps slower with a lot more recoil and stress on a 9mm barrel. Whats the point of +P+ should be the name of this thread when you can just buy a 357 SIG.

Not always but most of the time I try to look at both sides and also use common sense. Rather than load my 9mms ( and yes I own more 9mm than any other caliber I have) with +P+ (+++) why not just shoot a 357 SIG?

There are 45 guys, 40 guys, 9mm guys, 460 guys ect... All can give you reasons why one is the best or better round. To me it breaks down to numbers on paper AND test done. Watch videos that compare 9mm to 357 sig in penetration. Watch 44 mag vs 357 mag for hunting, watch accuracy test 308 vs 6.5. This is the information age so why abandon information?

There were test I was planning on conducting myself but Paul has done the ground work by shooting through clothes, skin, bone + muscle ( no gel crap ). Others have shot through cars, wood, bricks ect... This is where I gather my info. Some of these guys have way more backround in firearms than most people here. ( not all but, I dont see anyone here linking their video tests) I can link and have linked several videos SHOWING the effects of this vs that. Dont tell me show me a video where 9mm beats a 357 magnum in "Incapacitating Power" since 'knock down power" doesnt exist .

Today I carried a small 9mm for comfort and how I dressed. Doesnt change my opinion on what is a better round. I decided this on comfort not stopping power. Im still wanting a small double stack SIG in 357.

I use +P or +P+ 9mm and they have less and slightly less felt recoil than .357SIG in a comparably sized/weighted handgun. Even if the recoil were exactly the same, the 9mm still has the edge in capacity. The only two times you can have too much ammo are if you’re drowning or on fire. Additionally, standard velocity 9mm training ammo doesn’t wear a gun out like .357SIG ammo does.

I don’t rely on YouTube tests, regardless of the criteria and materials I used. I will use them to gain specific information I’m looking for. I rely on data from actual real-world use, where folks have shot folks. You can’t get any better than that. I have access to a lot of data in that area. I’ve gone over shootings involving various 9mm, .40S&W, .357SIG, and .45ACP rounds, plus others. I’ve been to more than one autopsy of a person that died from gunshot wounds.

Like I said before, any advantage that the .357SIG has over one of the 9mm rounds that I use is purely in your head. When it comes to having a Combat Mindset, having faith in your equipment is an advantage. So, whether or not there is a PHYSICAL advantage to the .357SIG, you will have a MENTAL advantage. Press on.

 

[cmshoot]

I don’t make a big deal out of any specific caliber. I’ve been issued and carried on duty into harm’s way the 9mm, .357SIG, .40S&W, and .45ACP. At times I have chosen to carry personal handguns in all of those calibers, as well as .38 Special, .357 Magnum, .44 Special, and light .44 Magnum. I have faith in all of the above calibers. If I were forced to carry any of those I wouldn’t hesitate, and would not feel that I was undergunned.

I don’t want to change anyone’s mind here on the topic, I keep saying over and over to carry what you feel comfortable with. I have studied thousands of actual shootings. If I thought something was a poor choice, I’d say it straight out.

 

[mikeyE]

Are the Air Marshals still going to transition to the Glock 19 or did that idea get cut in the budget?

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

If a 357 Sig fires the same bullet as a 9 mm but drives it 200 ft./s faster, it has to do more damage. Either a wider wound cavity, a wider wound channel, or deeper penetration. Most likely some combination of the three.
All that extra horsepower over the 9 x 19 isn't going to just disappear or blow away in the breeze. The laws of physics dictate so.
That power's going to be spent somewhere, and if you use an expanding bullet it will be spent in the target breaking it more thoroughly

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I have never fired a 357 Sig., although I wanted to take a few shots out of CMshoot's pistol the last training class I did with him, and he agreed to that, but we ran out of time before we could make it happen.

I believe I would like the .357 Sig round in a medium to full sized handgun.
Just like I believe the .40 Smith & Wesson is an excellent around in those size pistols.
(I have owned guns in .40 before I started paring down my collection).

But for a stubby-barrel, short-gripped conceal carry gun, I like the 9mm better.
I can shoot it faster, and more accurately, especially one handed.

 

[MRH]

With ya 100%! I spent way too much time researching and considering the best caliber to carry in the woods for me and this was the round I ended up with.

Have you looked into getting some hard cast bullets, or any other bullet specifically for hunting?

 

[MRH]

I want one of these after fondling at the NRA convention last year...

I would prolly own one now if they didn't come with the rail...railed 1911's aren't for me.

https://armscor.com/firearms/ria/pro-series/pro-match-ultra-6-hc-10mm/

The RIA looks like a great value, and I've looked at them and heard mostly very good feedback about them, but same as you I'm not a railed 1911 guy.

I've seen quite a few very nice 10mm 1911's. Eventually I'll find a deal I can't pass up and I will pounce on it.

 

[Ken Ford]

I just don’t see how 9, .357, .40 or .45 have that much difference in felt “recoil”
Different, but not any huge difference. Not in defensive/duty ammo.

Hell when I get old enough maybe it will feel different.

 

[MaconGuns]

I have never fired a 357 Sig., although I wanted to take a few shots out of CMshoot's pistol the last training class I did with him, and he agreed to that, but we ran out of time before we could make it happen.

I believe I would like the .357 Sig round in a medium to full sized handgun.
Just like I believe the .40 Smith & Wesson is an excellent around in those size pistols.
(I have owned guns in .40 before I started paring down my collection).

But for a stubby-barrel, short-gripped conceal carry gun, I like the 9mm better.
I can shoot it faster, and more accurately, especially one handed.

I need to fire them side by side. I own or have owned most normal calibers. ATM Ive got 9mm, 45acp, 44mag, 38sp, 10mm, 40sw, 357sig. Just by memory Id say the small (compact) 9mms kick about as much as a full size 357 sig. The snub 38 kicks nice with 38 +p. If I had to guess Id say the 357sig kicks about the same as the 40sw but its louder. The 38 snub wants to jump out of my hand regardless of how tight a grip I have. While the 9mm in a full size kick less I dont have any trouble keeping any of the three (40,9,357) on target with follow-up shots. Its been awhile since ive shot 45 but the recoil pulse from 45 actually feels pleasant from memory. 40 and 357 do have a bit more snap but in a P229 with the full grip and metal frame its tamed. The 40 in a Walther PPS is awful but felt better in a SW Bodyguard. What I think the whole "recoil" thing might partially be is what the base gun is. Shooting 38sp out of a 686 is a cake walk but in a 38 snub its felt a lot more. 10mm out of my P220 feels much better than out of my G20.