I asked Massad Ayoob in a pm on another forum about this. He cited several cases with over zealous DA's.
His argument was convincing enough that I only carry factory ammo.
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Anyone carry your own personal defense loads?
- Thread starter 07JKX
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I asked Massad Ayoob in a pm on another forum about this. He cited several cases with over zealous DA's.
His argument was convincing enough that I only carry factory ammo.
I have heard this before as well... that takes me back to train with the ammo you carry @ almost $1.00 per round. That aint gonna happen. Perhaps I could buy some factory Hornady 230grn XTP ammo and then work up a home batch load that is close to the factory stuff for training. I have access to a chrono so I guess it wouldnt be too hard.
Well ammunition that is carried for self defense is a very personal choice and hopefully one that is made in a rational manner!
But I carry reloads, i load them in a single station press fashion, every single load is individually weighed and hand assembled as well as being throughly tested for function before that particular load is considered.
I am by no way a lawyer but have been on litterly dozens and dozens of crime scenes that envolved shooting, many were murders/killings.
i have never heard a single policeman, detective ask the shooter (if he was in the right) what kind of ammo did you use? did you use reloads?/ what was the power of the reloads or factory ammo?
Nor at several well over a dozen trials have I ever heard any such question asked.
as for MR Ayoob if memory serves me he has only actually testified in a couple trials pertaining to shootings and that was in the field of ballistics.
there is a lot of he said, he heard, she heard , well my uncle saw, etc.
so i just ask have any of you ever been involved in any trial or investigtaion that the question of what type ammo was used in a justifiable shooting?
IF its a bad shooting it really doesn't matter what the ammo type, you are liklely going to jail!t
there is a big difference in Civial litigation and criminal proscecution so the old DA thing is even harder to swallow, why would a DA go after anyone that was protecting themselves?
Next time you see a police officer ask if he has actually ever witnessed such a question or prosecutuion, not what he heard or what he thinks but what he actually has witnessed!
thats like saying well i stabbed this guy to death but its Ok cause I used a store bought knife
sand jsut for the record, factory ammo isn't 100% reliable either, i think the average bad round is around 1 in 100,000, so practice for the clearance of a bad round regardless of what you tote.
Just my take on all this.
But I carry reloads, i load them in a single station press fashion, every single load is individually weighed and hand assembled as well as being throughly tested for function before that particular load is considered.
I am by no way a lawyer but have been on litterly dozens and dozens of crime scenes that envolved shooting, many were murders/killings.
i have never heard a single policeman, detective ask the shooter (if he was in the right) what kind of ammo did you use? did you use reloads?/ what was the power of the reloads or factory ammo?
Nor at several well over a dozen trials have I ever heard any such question asked.
as for MR Ayoob if memory serves me he has only actually testified in a couple trials pertaining to shootings and that was in the field of ballistics.
there is a lot of he said, he heard, she heard , well my uncle saw, etc.
so i just ask have any of you ever been involved in any trial or investigtaion that the question of what type ammo was used in a justifiable shooting?
IF its a bad shooting it really doesn't matter what the ammo type, you are liklely going to jail!t
there is a big difference in Civial litigation and criminal proscecution so the old DA thing is even harder to swallow, why would a DA go after anyone that was protecting themselves?
Next time you see a police officer ask if he has actually ever witnessed such a question or prosecutuion, not what he heard or what he thinks but what he actually has witnessed!
thats like saying well i stabbed this guy to death but its Ok cause I used a store bought knife
sand jsut for the record, factory ammo isn't 100% reliable either, i think the average bad round is around 1 in 100,000, so practice for the clearance of a bad round regardless of what you tote.
Just my take on all this.
OK, lets assume that this does happen!
so what if my reloaded ammo is actually loaded down to reduce recoil?
would that make it a wounding ammo that just happened by accident to kill the perp?
Or what if me and a buddy both shot a perp and i had down loaded ammo in reloads and my buddy had Plus P factory ammo, would he be prosecuted because he had the more deadlier ammo?
come on folks think about this??
Now you can be civially sued for anyhting, including pouring a cup of hot coffee in your lap form the restaurant, but really whats the odds and whats the odds of winning?
All you would have to do is have any doctor come and refute the DA. A shot to the chest with a .45 cand and will kill you can't be "more" dead with other ammo. A jury would surely not listen to this drek. My motto is: I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
As I recall there was a case where a woman shot herself and the husband was charged with murder. The case sticks in my head because the ammo used was a reduced power load and as such the woman did not have powder burns. They reasoned that the husband shot her and claimed she did it herself. As I recall they eventually got it right BUT it does illustrate what can occur with handloaded ammo. As I recall this info came from Mas and he testified on that case.
You fellas are assuming logic prevails in a court room. I personally wouldn't depend on logic in a court room, especially when the jury is made up of the "average" citizen. Remember, the average citizen out there is fairly easily swayed about many things and their perception is their reality. What sounds crazy to you here will likely not sound crazy to them in the brief period of a court case when they have little time to think about it.
A local attorney commented on this a long while back and he called BS on it. He could find no cases where somebody was prosecuted for their ammo type. In one case where he knew his client used handloads he asked the police investigator what brand of ammo was used and they didn't seem to care. Besides you could just as easily claim you wanted your ammo to be "less deadly" or just "more accurate". To me a better reason to use store bought ammo is the greater possibility that you may load a round with no powder in it.
good info guys!
If I can get the xtp's at the speed I want, I may start carrying them.
If I can get the xtp's at the speed I want, I may start carrying them.
230 gr hardball or XTP's (mainly because hornady gave me a 1000 XTP's). I trust them more than factory loads. in 38's I do carry hornady critical defense. ( That would be because a gentleman was nice enough to include 3 boxes of target ammo and a couple boxes of the hornady for 15 extra when I bought his wife's snubnose Smith ; it was in a drawer since 1974)
