It is like the $8/lb hand raised chicken thighs....let it rot on the shelf.
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Bill of sale?
- Thread starter GeorgiaGun1
- Start date
This has to be the most repetitive issue or question on ODT. Just go to search box and type "BOS" or "Bill of Sale" and one will get more info and opinions they care for.
Former cop and detective here. So you all think if someone you sell gun to goes and kills someone with it that your "word" to the investigating homicide detective will suffice and give a free pass? Uh- resounding No. But at least if you have BOS you wld hv Something to help back up your stmt. Not that I require BOS (but prolly shld) on vast majority of sales, but just sayin I wld sign one from seller to me no hesitation and want copy. Plus- what if the seller stole it and You were caught with it by a cop at a traffic stop etc (and many LE will run the serial #) Think the ofcr gonna believe you bought it from some dude on an online site just based on your word? Good luck with that, just offering thoughts from police perspective.
Former assistant DA (felony prosecutor) here.
I always to a bill of sale for selling a handgun.
Maybe not for a trade, but I probably should.
Often I don't bother for an old-fashioned sporting rifle or shotgun.
The odds of one of those being used in a future crime is very small.
Also, there are some police agencies that, if they recover your lost or stolen gun, won't give it back to you without a bill of sale. They want proof it's yours. Now, if you bought it new, but you didn't save your receipt, that means you have to go back to the dealer where you got it and PAY THEM to search their old records and make a replacement receipt. I assume if it's a gun you legally purchased used from a private individual, that police department would want a bill of sale listing the seller by name and with his signature on it.
Finally, consider how a bill of sale will protect you if you end up buying stolen property. The circumstances of the sale ARE admissible evidence to show your awareness that you were buying a stolen gun. The lack of any paperwork on the sale will almost certainly be evidence against you, if the cops and DA's office want to make the case and take you to court. The DA's office will say to the jury that good citizens, reasonable and intelligent people, get receipts for buying /selling valuable things like jewelry or high-end electronics, and dangerous things like guns. If you didn't, that means you knew this was a dirty deal and you didn't want any evidence lingering behind documenting this crime of buying stolen property.
I always to a bill of sale for selling a handgun.
Maybe not for a trade, but I probably should.
Often I don't bother for an old-fashioned sporting rifle or shotgun.
The odds of one of those being used in a future crime is very small.
Also, there are some police agencies that, if they recover your lost or stolen gun, won't give it back to you without a bill of sale. They want proof it's yours. Now, if you bought it new, but you didn't save your receipt, that means you have to go back to the dealer where you got it and PAY THEM to search their old records and make a replacement receipt. I assume if it's a gun you legally purchased used from a private individual, that police department would want a bill of sale listing the seller by name and with his signature on it.
Finally, consider how a bill of sale will protect you if you end up buying stolen property. The circumstances of the sale ARE admissible evidence to show your awareness that you were buying a stolen gun. The lack of any paperwork on the sale will almost certainly be evidence against you, if the cops and DA's office want to make the case and take you to court. The DA's office will say to the jury that good citizens, reasonable and intelligent people, get receipts for buying /selling valuable things like jewelry or high-end electronics, and dangerous things like guns. If you didn't, that means you knew this was a dirty deal and you didn't want any evidence lingering behind documenting this crime of buying stolen property.
Wow. WTF did I just read? Please cite the case where any of this sort of thing has happened.
10 seconds of Google searching turns up this FL case. Ga laws are very similar on this topic.
KERR v. STATE OF FLORIDA
District Court of Appeals, 4th Div.
Decided April 18, 2007
When a person has possession of property known to have been recently stolen the law recognizes two rebuttable presumptions arising from such possession: (1) a common law presumption that the possessor stole the property, see State v. Young, 217 So.2d 567, 571 (Fla. 1968) (“In the case of possession of recently stolen goods … the inference that the possessor is the guilty taker is so strong that the rules of evidence permit the jury to return a verdict of guilty on this one circumstance alone if the defendant allows it to go to the jury either unexplained or with an explanation that is so palpably unreasonable and incredible that the jury rejects it entirely”);
and (2) a statutory presumption that the possessor knew the property had been stolen,
...
[BUT what if THE ACCUSED SAYS "I BOUGHT THIS THING LEGALLY" ?? ]
...once the defense has offered evidence of an explanation that is facially reasonable, the burden of proof remains on the state to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt with evidence inconsistent with defendant’s facially reasonable explanation. When a defendant’s explanation is not indisputably reasonable and requires an assessment of credibility and other factors, the presumption may not vanish entirely.
[IN KERR'S CASE]
The factors adduced by defendant—his statement that he bought the car from someone he just - 3 - met playing basketball and that he received no receipt, bill of sale or evidence of title—are not facially plausible.
[CONVICTION UPHELD ]
His "I bought the car legally" story sounded like B.S. and was rejected by both the court and the jury because, in part, he didn't have any receipt or bill of sale to support is verbal statement.
"bought the car from someone he just - 3 - met playing basketball"
Let's get a case with a gun as the stolen property and the 'possessor' not an urban yute.
Let's get a case with a gun as the stolen property and the 'possessor' not an urban yute.
And a bill of sale is not going to prevent you from being charged with receiving stolen property (from an over zealous lazy ass popo/DA tag team) because, if the gun is stolen, you DID receive stolen property. Say you have a bill of sale for a Glock 19 Gen 5 that you bought for $100? Is that BOS going to protect you from prosecution?
