Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Shotguns (esp. for Home Defense)

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I’m not going to hash out another Shotgun vs Carbine/Rifle thread on ODT. that’s been done, ad nauseam.

** Well, it hasn't been done lately, has it? And the OP of this thread started off with a video about tactical shotguns, so that naturally invites a comparison to other defensive weapons like carbines ***

To me, the biggest versatility of a shotgun is the wide array of ammunition that can be used. For use inside a domestic structure, most of the preferred loads ....

*** I'm not a SWAT cop. I'm a guy who wants the power and intimidation factor, and instinctive pointability of a long gun over a handgun in the role of defending my home. And, I should add, my property and my rather large yard which is about 120 yards across. With that in mind, will I be really carrying a bunch of different kinds ammo on my body in my pockets or on the side saddle ammo carrier on my weapon? I don't think so. Like most people if I have a shotgun for defense I'm going to load it with one load the best load I think will suit my envisioned use. if I choose, let's say, #2 buckshot for my defenseive load, I'm going to have only number 2 buckshot in it --maybe I'll have a couple of slugs in the side saddle ammo rack but that's it.
I won't be carrying birdshot or buck-N-ball, or dragons breath, or flechette, or bolo rounds. No flash-bangs, nor door-breaching powdered lead slugs . No rubber bullets ,tear gas shells, or any other less-lethal cartridges either.***




...will exhibit way less penetration than anything fired from a rifle, frangible or not. Frangible rounds have to hit something harder than they are in order to sinter. On typical domestic construction materials, and humans, they act like a FMJ.


**** Aren't there varmint and predator rounds, with rapidly expanding hunting bullets (as well as tactical bullets) made for 308 caliber rifles? Don't these bullets tend to fragment and break apart when they hit ballistic gelatin or meat? If "frangible bullets" are not the right product, what about a traditional cup-and-core jacketed soft point or ballistic tip bullet made with pure soft lead in the core for very rapid expansion? ****

As to that ammo versatility, I can switch loads to a slug and engage at 100yds+.

*** Yes, but how long does that take compared to just shooting back with a carbine and the ammo you've already got chambered? If bad guys have kidnapped your daughter and are hustling her across your yard toward a waiting getaway van at the curb 80 yards distant, do you want to take the time to switch ammo and if you do will they already be in that van with the doors closed by the time you reshoulder that weapon with the slug round loaded? ***


Don’t compare apples to rocks. In a home defense situation, you don’t need 400yd capability.


**** True dat. But the ability to take a head shot with a hostage (maybe your spouse or child) right next to the bad guy would be very welcome and not completely unrealistic for many violent crimes or bad guys hold innocent people at gun point or hold them physically. Even at 50 yards, a precise rescue shot is better done with a rifle or carbine than the shotgun. ****

A Rem870 is a better firearm than an M14 to fight inside my home with. The M14 is a better firearm to fight from ridgeline to ridgeline with.

For home defense, I will make the argument that 20+ round magazines and the ability to reload quickly is superfluous. This ain’t Hollywood and 8 Russians aren’t going to kick in your door.

Run what you wanna run.

My shotgun classes are not an espousal of the shotgun over any other system, it is simply training for those that have chosen the shotgun.

*** Right, but this thread isn't about your shotgun training classes.
It is abouvt what attrubutes shotguns have that apply to the home defense role.***

 

[Deleted member 79987]

*** Right, but this thread isn't about your shotgun training classes.
It is abouvt what attrubutes shotguns have that apply to the home defense role.***

Actually it was originally about how the NRA's Shooting Illustrated blog recently highlighted several of their shotgun-related articles, and several of them happened to be specifically related to home defense but several others were "101" type articles. I thought some of them were pretty helpful for me and just wanted to share the lot of them, because I'm learning a lot about the platform.

 

[November Sierra]

People unironically use shotguns outside of breaching roles?

 

[REDX]

I’m not going to hash out another Shotgun vs Carbine/Rifle thread on ODT. that’s been done, ad nauseam.

To me, the biggest versatility of a shotgun is the wide array of ammunition that can be used. For use inside a domestic structure, most of the preferred loads will exhibit way less penetration than anything fired from a rifle, frangible or not. Frangible rounds have to hit something harder than they are in order to sinter. On typical domestic construction materials, and humans, they act like a FMJ.

As to that ammo versatility, I can switch loads to a slug and engage at 100yds+.

Don’t compare apples to rocks. In a home defense situation, you don’t need 400yd capability. A Rem870 is a better firearm than an M14 to fight inside my home with. The M14 is a better firearm to fight from ridgeline to ridgeline with.

For home defense, I will make the argument that 20+ round magazines and the ability to reload quickly is superfluous. This ain’t Hollywood and 8 Russians aren’t going to kick in your door.

Run what you wanna run. My shotgun classes are not an espousal of the shotgun over any other system, it is simply training for those that have chosen the shotgun.

^^^THIS, Im not having a freaking firefight in my house, If I can't can't get it done with 15 rounds of shotgun with my wife with the pistol for backup Im having bigger problems. How many of you guys that keep saying Carbines for home defense have ACTUALLY shot at a moving target?

Like cmshoot said, its easy to load 1 slug if you need to make a precision shot or shoot distance but IMO once the perp is outside of 30 yards from my house its no longer a HD situation.

 

[Deleted member 79987]

Like cmshoot said, its easy to load 1 slug if you need to make a precision shot or shoot distance but IMO once the perp is outside of 30 yards from my house its no longer a HD situation.

True dat. Unless the crook has taken up position with a rifle or carbine aimed at you, it's unlikely to be an "imminent threat". Most likely it'll be their backside you see as they run away, which IMHO is not justified to shoot at from your doorway.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

I'm just saying that THIS gun below (with the right kind of ammo) seems more useful in more "home defense" scenarios ...

... than THIS kind, which is nonetheless way more popular.

 

[REDX]

I'm just saying that THIS gun below (with the right kind of ammo) seems more useful in more "home defense" scenarios ...

View attachment 1790045

... than THIS kind, which is nonetheless way more popular.


View attachment 1790046

yeah, IF your house was in Fallujah!!! A semi auto rifle shooting 1 30 cal bullet per shot versus a semi shooting 9 30 caliber bullets per shot? That's pretty obvious.

 

[cmshoot]

*** Right, but this thread isn't about your shotgun training classes.
It is abouvt what attrubutes shotguns have that apply to the home defense role.***

I am quite aware. Also, in the title of this thread is “esp. for Home Defense”, yet you’re talking about rifles being capable of 400yd shots while a shotgun isn’t good for much past 30yds. I fail to see how that is applicable. I can’t think of very many situations where a 30yd shot is necessary for HD, let alone 400yds.

 

[cmshoot]

I'm just saying that THIS gun below (with the right kind of ammo) seems more useful in more "home defense" scenarios ...

View attachment 1790045

... than THIS kind, which is nonetheless way more popular.


View attachment 1790046

I will differ with you greatly on that. Using a .308 for shots on human beings at 10yds and less is going to result in overpenetration.......I don’t care what kind of ammunition you’re using, unless you’re loading some specialty subs that won’t cycle the action, which kinda defeats the purpose of using a semi-auto.

 

[Deleted member 79987]

yeah, IF your house was in Fallujah!!! A semi auto rifle shooting 1 30 cal bullet per shot versus a semi shooting 9 30 caliber bullets per shot? That's pretty obvious.

Agree! I don't know about this brand of shotgun, but the car shots and room clearing tactics are good mental walkthroughs at least.