Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Shotguns (esp. for Home Defense)

[Radar363]

Good write up. I didn't see anything mentioned about the Judge or Governor for defense........

You mean 'pocket shotguns'?

 

[MaconGuns]

Lol you didn't say .5 sec in the earlier post! For my time just move the decimal point two places to the right...

Im mostly comparing 1 shot to 1 shot. I think there are 9 balls per shot in a 12 gauge and most if not all of those will pattern in a torso with one trigger pull. If you happen to be off target theres still a good chance 1-2 will still clip the target. If the target is only presenting his head + arm there should be a better chance to wing him without presenting him with a better shot at you. Ive yet to test this theory but imho it seems sound.

 

[EMC45]

You mean 'pocket shotguns'?

I always found it funny how everyone - gun mags and gun shops BASHED .410 in ANY type of defensive use. ANY TYPE. Then all the sudden the Judge and Governor come out and it's the next best thing since sliced bread. So a .410 out of a 20 inch barrel is horrible and sucks for defensive purposes? The same .410 out of a 3 inch barrel is now the soul destroyer. With a barrel cylinder gap to boot.

It was mainly tongue and cheek.

 

[redtail]

I have often thought about making a shotgun my home defence weapon but have steered away from it. I believe it may be a good option for some people but I have decided for me a good 9mm pistol is my best option. I have 2 kids and a wife and have decided having a free hand to be able to control them in a panic if needed. I have a tactical advantage in my homes layout if we had a breaking at night and we have a plan in place.

 

[Bear44]

I have often thought about making a shotgun my home defence weapon but have steered away from it. I believe it may be a good option for some people but I have decided for me a good 9mm pistol is my best option. I have 2 kids and a wide and have decided having a free hand to be able to control them in a panic if needed. I have a tactical advantage in my homes layout if we had a breaking ar night and we have a plan in place.

You're a brave man calling your wife a "wide".

 

[redtail]

You're a brave man calling your wife a "wide".

Haha. Very far from the truth but she would punch me.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

If, as one of the articles the O.P. cited in this thread says, the key advantage of a shotgun is stopping power (one -hit lethality), why not just use a .308 carbine instead? Something with a 16" -18" barrel and fed from a 20-round magazine?

With 150-grain rapidly expanding (or even fragmenting) bullets (not FMJ), there should be about the same massive tissue damage as a tight pattern of buckshot.

The 150 gr. ballitstic tip type varmint bullet at 2600 f.p.s. velocity ( from a semi auto carbine, short bbl.) would not overpenetrate with a solid torso hit.
(If you just wing the bad guy in the bicep or pop a slug through his oblique muscles on the side of his abdomen, you're going to get overpenetration no matter what gun you use).

I think having 20 rounds of rifle ammo would be more useful than having 5 to 8 rounds of shotgun ammo.

I think having a gun that uses quick detachable box magazines is better than having a gun that needs to be reloaded one round at a time through the side or bottom, into a tubular magazine .

I think a semi auto .30 caliber rifle that generates maybe 12 foot pounds recoil energy is a better choice for combat then a 12-bore shotgun loaded with a high brass buckshot load which would generate 25+ pounds of recoil energy.

I think the versatility of having a rifle which, even with iron sights, can be effectively used out to 400 yards is better than a combat shotgun which is regarded as being a 50 yard weapon, but more like 30 yards if you want to retain the advantage of a tight pattern that keeps all the buckshot pellets in the center of the adversary's chest.

 

[mikey357]

With 9-pellet, Federal LE Reduced Recoil 00 buck, my 14” Rem870 groups about 5 1/2” at 25 yards. At 7 yards the “pattern” isn’t appreciably wider than a 12ga slug.

Too much bad info out there on use of buckshot for self defense. Too many folks trying to OPEN their patterns when they should be tightening them up. I paid good money to have my Modified choke barrel worked on by Vang Comp; backbored and forcing cone lengthened.

Coupla' questions...How did your Barrel pattern BEFORE Hans Vang worked on it? How does it pattern "Regular" Buckshot loads now, as opposed to the Low Recoil loads w/the Flite Control Wad? Do you have any idea what the actual Choke Constriction is now versus what it was BEFORE the work?

 

[cmshoot]

Coupla' questions...How did your Barrel pattern BEFORE Hans Vang worked on it? How does it pattern "Regular" Buckshot loads now, as opposed to the Low Recoil loads w/the Flite Control Wad? Do you have any idea what the actual Choke Constriction is now versus what it was BEFORE the work?

1. No idea how it patterned before. It had a 12” barrel on it, I ordered the 14” and had all the work done before I installed it. It patterns much better than the unmodified 12” barrel, but the 14” is Modified and the 12” is Cylinder.

2. No idea, but I plan on checking that out. In theory, with the way the barrel work is supposed to effect the shot itself, it should show MORE of a beneficial difference with a faster load than it does with low recoil loads.

3. The work was on the back end of the barrel, so the Modified choke should have stayed the same. I’ll measure it when I get a chance.

 

[cmshoot]

If, as one of the articles the O.P. cited in this thread says, the key advantage of a shotgun is stopping power (one -hit lethality), why not just use a .308 carbine instead? Something with a 16" -18" barrel and fed from a 20-round magazine?

With 150-grain rapidly expanding (or even fragmenting) bullets (not FMJ), there should be about the same massive tissue damage as a tight pattern of buckshot.

The 150 gr. ballitstic tip type varmint bullet at 2600 f.p.s. velocity ( from a semi auto carbine, short bbl.) would not overpenetrate with a solid torso hit.
(If you just wing the bad guy in the bicep or pop a slug through his oblique muscles on the side of his abdomen, you're going to get overpenetration no matter what gun you use).

I think having 20 rounds of rifle ammo would be more useful than having 5 to 8 rounds of shotgun ammo.

I think having a gun that uses quick detachable box magazines is better than having a gun that needs to be reloaded one round at a time through the side or bottom, into a tubular magazine .

I think a semi auto .30 caliber rifle that generates maybe 12 foot pounds recoil energy is a better choice for combat then a 12-bore shotgun loaded with a high brass buckshot load which would generate 25+ pounds of recoil energy.

I think the versatility of having a rifle which, even with iron sights, can be effectively used out to 400 yards is better than a combat shotgun which is regarded as being a 50 yard weapon, but more like 30 yards if you want to retain the advantage of a tight pattern that keeps all the buckshot pellets in the center of the adversary's chest.

I’m not going to hash out another Shotgun vs Carbine/Rifle thread on ODT. that’s been done, ad nauseam.

To me, the biggest versatility of a shotgun is the wide array of ammunition that can be used. For use inside a domestic structure, most of the preferred loads will exhibit way less penetration than anything fired from a rifle, frangible or not. Frangible rounds have to hit something harder than they are in order to sinter. On typical domestic construction materials, and humans, they act like a FMJ.

As to that ammo versatility, I can switch loads to a slug and engage at 100yds+.

Don’t compare apples to rocks. In a home defense situation, you don’t need 400yd capability. A Rem870 is a better firearm than an M14 to fight inside my home with. The M14 is a better firearm to fight from ridgeline to ridgeline with.

For home defense, I will make the argument that 20+ round magazines and the ability to reload quickly is superfluous. This ain’t Hollywood and 8 Russians aren’t going to kick in your door.

Run what you wanna run. My shotgun classes are not an espousal of the shotgun over any other system, it is simply training for those that have chosen the shotgun.