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Shotguns still suck for Self Defense.
- Thread starter Bear44
- Start date
Probably already posted, but who can’t listen to this man daily?
Shotguns were the best tool grandpa had available for self defense, and firearm owners tend to veer on the conservative side. On this topic they just aren’t conservative enough.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the answer to your home defense needs (high capacity, low recoil, no over penetration) the 22lr Gatling gun:
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the answer to your home defense needs (high capacity, low recoil, no over penetration) the 22lr Gatling gun:
I have had complaints about over penetration before...
Probably not "what she said..."
I agree shotguns don't "suck." I can rack a pump shotgun really fast, and today's generations of semi-autos are a lot more reliable (and more tolerant of different power loads) than the ones made 20+ years ago were.
A 12 gauge shotgun with slugs or buckshot can strike the target with 3000 ft/pounds of muzzle energy. That's a lot of force to try to effect a one-shot stop.
Even if shotgun pellets don't spread very far at typical gunfight / home defense distances (just a few feet to a few yards), they DO create a larger wound channel or multiple wound channels, thus damaging more stuff in the bad guy's body than a single rifle bullet would. (ALTHOUGH, I think the difference in actual on-the-street effectiveness is small, if you compare a shotgun to a rifle caliber with an expanding bullet that hits the target at 2600-3100 feet / second. Soft-point rifle bullets make HUGE wound cavities, too. Hydrostatic shock can damage nerves inches away from the projectile's path).
For me, a carbine has one REAL and important advantage over a shotgun:
1-- ammo capacity. I don't care what the statistics say about the "average" gunfight; I would prefer more than 5 or 6 rounds in my gun.
Oh, you say some shotguns have a full-length magazine tube that hold 8 or 9 rounds? Okay, but don't they also have 20" or 21" barrels? That's kinda long for using in a home, I think. My home defense shotgun has an 18.5" barrel, and if I could have a 14" model without having to do the NFA thing, that would be my preference.
My IDEAL home defense gun would be an M4 type carbine loaded with a 20 round magazine (short and handy, but still with 3X the capacity of my shotgun). I'd stick a 30-round mag in my pocket on the way out the door, too, if I had to go investigate something that goes bump in the night.
The carbine has three other SMALL advantages that I make note of, but which aren't deal-breakers for me:
2-- Shorter barrels and shorter overall length.
3-- Less recoil, which isn't a big issue with me, but it is to a lot of smaller-stature and less-experienced shooters. I have trained plenty of women and teenagers to shoot, and most of them hate the kick of even a 20-gauge shotgun, and say the .410 bore is the upper limit of their comfort level (which makes sense; a .410 has about the same payload of lead, at the same velocity, as a heavy .45 Colt load, or a .44 magnum loaded with a big 300-grain slug.
4-- If you are considering a pistol caliber carbine, then the carbine has another great advantage over a shotgun or rifle-caliber carbine: Less noise, and less muzzle blast and muzzle flash in dim light.
(However, I recognize that with pistol caliber ammo comes a big drop in one-shot stopping power.)
I don't get this. What gun with what ammo is supposedly better for penetrating body organs?
I think 00 buckshot, even#1 buckshot, has sufficient penetration.
But birdshot does not. Not unless you put the muzzle right up to the target at contact distance, such that you leave powder burns on the bad guy's clothing!
P.S. I will say, however, that when I have tested my own 12 and 20 gauge shotguns, firing into jugs of water, stacks of old newspaper and junk mail, and scrap lumber, I found that buckshot penetration was generally a lot less than I expected. #2 buckshot had way less penetration than even a .38 special wadcutter (148 gr. bullet at 700 fps) or a 9mm (124 gr. HP with a nose that plugged and didn't expand).
I still think big buckshot has "enough" penetration for most bad guys, though.
