The new normal

[Mtber1172]

I don't like what's going on, but I also understand these folks have the freedom to conduct themselves as they see fit. There isn't much we can do about it collectively other than not buy from them. Management certainly isn't/can't/won't do anything, so frankly, if the leadership here has accepted it, then maybe we should all just make peace with it.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even look at the classifieds anymore because there's no point. I can go to the LGS and get things at a more affordable price these days...and that's saying a lot.

 

[JWC]

Mtber1172, I hear you and I know what you are talking about. However, the classifieds are selling more and more and more. While you think the classifieds are worthless, many others are buying and buying like crazy. As to the management of this site and whether they can't/won't do anything. And AO, let's for this instance ASSUME that the item is LEGAL for them to sell. How do you stop some from selling, and allow others to continue? Would it come down to what price the seller put on the item for sale? Would it come down to how many items they list for sale in a given time period? If you use price as a condition, who or what group makes that decision? No offense, but I would not want you deciding for me the selling price of my property. If you limit the number of items that can be listed, what is a good number? 10 a month, 5 a month, 15 a month? Again, I would not want anyone to decide for me how much of my property I can sell.
I do not agree with the asshats who run and buy stuff for resale on here. But, the buyers are the problem. We continue to look a the seller and want to curtail their actions. If not for the buyers, we would not have to worry about the asshats. Their ads would die a quick death. Just my opinion.

 

[Patronus]

It doesn't seem to be a concern of OS, so maybe everyone should stop worrying. After all, won't it be his rear end that gets investigated, since he's running this site?

Actually he shouldn't be investigated but if they do come they will most likely(as in I've seen alphabet agencies do this) sieze the servers for thier computer forensics people to go through with a fine tooth comb. Worked at a place where an employee was accused of child porn on a company compter and the GBI siezed the computerS, including the one that ran the autonomic functions of an entire county-wide service system. I never saw them come back but I heard that when they did they were in several boxes, like C3P0 in Empire Strikes Back.

As for me worrying, well, loss of the ODT would be devesataing and would probably make me MUCH more productive...GLAH! I just did a check on my feedback to assess what my sales/trade history looks like and I feel pretty comfortable. My history shows the fairly balanced activity of a committed collector and shooter with a bit of an addiction. Unlike some users who's feedback shows sale after sale after sale. A clear red light.

I don't like what's going on, but I also understand these folks have the freedom to conduct themselves as they see fit. There isn't much we can do about it collectively other than not buy from them. Management certainly isn't/can't/won't do anything, so frankly, if the leadership here has accepted it, then maybe we should all just make peace with it.

I've gotten to the point where I don't even look at the classifieds anymore because there's no point. I can go to the LGS and get things at a more affordable price these days...and that's saying a lot.

Well, brother, A the freedom to do as they see fit is limited by the law in this case. Maybe making peace with it is the easy thing to do. That's usually fine. Right up until he shafting.

And B: get yo self back in the classifieds, you have some good stuff to trade...sometimes.

 

[meastt]

Just because a gun is listed higher than some of you would pay doesn't always equal a profit flipping shade tree gun dealer.

I've done 67 deals in just over a 2 year period. Of those 67 I'd say half were other items like (scopes, ammo, hunting gear and even a law mower and a utility trailer).....

Some I have made a small profit (that was rolled into a better gun) and some I took a small loss. That's just how it goes.

Now I do see members that are posting new in box guns 2-3 times a week and they have LOTS of feedback.

I think those guys are open to big brother trouble.

 

[Patronus]

But, the buyers are the problem. We continue to look a the seller and want to curtail their actions. If not for the buyers, we would not have to worry about the asshats. Their ads would die a quick death. Just my opinion.

I agree. The irony is that if you look at a parallel situation...illegal drug sales, the dealers are the ones prosecuted the hardest and everyone gets pissed when the buyers are "persecuted" for just buying a recreational quantity. Without a market NO dealer would have any sales, so whether the product is legal or not, regulated or not, it is the market that drives it, but the dealer who breaks the law to feed the need. And with no clear cut demarkation by the relevant law enforcement agencies(which I think is intentional so that they can manipulate the charges to suit thier own case-by-case goals), we as buyers and/or sellers have no idea whether we are even breaking the law or not. At some point it becomes so blatant that it is OBVIOUSLY a violation, but that line is mighty fuzzy.

 

[AirOpsMgr]

Mtber1172, I hear you and I know what you are talking about. However, the classifieds are selling more and more and more. While you think the classifieds are worthless, many others are buying and buying like crazy. As to the management of this site and whether they can't/won't do anything. And AO, let's for this instance ASSUME that the item is LEGAL for them to sell. How do you stop some from selling, and allow others to continue? Would it come down to what price the seller put on the item for sale? Would it come down to how many items they list for sale in a given time period? If you use price as a condition, who or what group makes that decision? No offense, but I would not want you deciding for me the selling price of my property. If you limit the number of items that can be listed, what is a good number? 10 a month, 5 a month, 15 a month? Again, I would not want anyone to decide for me how much of my property I can sell. I do not agree with the asshats who run and buy stuff for resale on here. But, the buyers are the problem. We continue to look a the seller and want to curtail their actions. If not for the buyers, we would not have to worry about the asshats. Their ads would die a quick death. Just my opinion.

You will notice I have not made any mention regarding price points in this thread, I'm simply focusing on the act of flipping.

It's not my intent to don a cape & play super BATF agent, limit transactions, solve the worlds problems, etc.... I'm just speaking my mind. As I have read and understand CFRs, & as previously posted, I believe many folks are clearly in violation by purchasing multiple firearms expressly with the intent to sell.

ETA: This does not mean I'm going to call up the ATF and bring unwanted attention to my hobby, more of a "Just sayin" situation

Oh, and almost forgot: Just leave it on the damn shelf!!!

 

[meastt]

You will notice I have not made any mention regarding price points in this thread, I'm simply focusing on the act of flipping.

It's not my intent to don a cape & play super BATF agent, limit transactions, solve the worlds problems, etc.... I'm just speaking my mind. As I have read and understand CFRs, & as previously posted, I believe many folks are clearly in violation by purchasing multiple firearms expressly with the intent to sell.

ETA: This does not mean I'm going to call up the ATF and bring unwanted attention to my hobby, more of a "Just sayin" situation

Oh, and almost forgot: Just leave it on the damn shelf!!!

That "intent" is very hard to prove by the US attorney and unless it is a clear case I highly suspect there will be no true bill.

 

[Patronus]

That "intent" is very hard to prove by the US attorney and unless it is a clear case I highly suspect there will be no true bill.

I would think that intent can be readily proven by establishing a recurring pattern of behavior.

 

[AirOpsMgr]

That "intent" is very hard to prove by the US attorney and unless it is a clear case I highly suspect there will be no true bill.

As mentioned a few pages back, I believe intent would be very easy to prove based on the information that could be subpoenaed , but as I also mentioned, I doubt many have pockets deep enough to fight the battle in court for very long

 

[meastt]

As mentioned a few pages back, I believe intent would be very easy to prove based on the information that could be subpoenaed , but as I also mentioned, I doubt many have pockets deep enough to fight the battle in court for very long

This is true. In thinking of some members posting habits I suppose the intent would be very easy to prove now that you and JWC mention that. Good points.