This year's gun bill...

[InitialKev]

I understand your point of view. I just disagree with it. My examples were simply taking your point of view to the next logical conclusion. If you think training should be mandatory, then why not make everyone get the same training? Why not make permit holders go back and get the training? Why should present permit holders be exempted if it is a safety measure? Who decides what the curriculum will be?

If guns can't be around alcohol, then why should cars? Cars have a LONG track record of danger when mixed with alcohol. Since there is a chance that someone in a car might drink if they are allowed to take their car to a bar, then why not just say you can't take the car?

We already have laws against drunk driving and being drunk in public so what's to stop someone from walking to a bar and get drunk, leave and then cause a disturbance? Alcohol makes even the most sound minded person do stupid things. If we go further with your logic with cars and alcohol we shouldn't be able to drive to the store to buy alcohol because we might drink it in the car. Then we won't be able to walk to the store to buy alcohol because we might drink it on the way home. I work in a convenience store, I've seen people do this. Then we won't be able to drink at home because we might beat our wives. So since consuming alcohol may lead to destructive behavior no matter where it's consumed the next logical step would be to ban alcohol and we all know how well that worked.

Taking logic to both ends of the scale isn't common sense.

 

[alnen]

I agree with almost all of what you said with the exception of these two
1. Mandatory training; i would support mandatory safety training way to many folks are not up to speed on this.
2. Bar carry; nope guns have no place around the consumption of alcohol.

So designated driver's shouldn't have a right to protect themselves? What about bartenders, servers, etc?

I personally believe that a grown man/woman should be able to make the choice to have a drink while carrying. It's not illegal to do so afterall. There are states where bar carry is legal and the fears of drunken licensed gun toters getting into gun fights just are not being realized.

Mandatory training is a whole can of worms you do NOT want to open. Not only is it not constitutional, it does not work in states that have implemented it. They have not been able to present facts that show that they are safer because of it. Additionally, it can be twisted to completely strip your ability to carry. Wasn't it D.C. that required you to get your mandatory training at a range within d.c. limits, then also banned ranges within d.c. limits? Additionally, I have a little story about my friend in Florida and his mandatory training experience.

 

[alnen]

I can shine a little light
on "mandatory training". I accompanied a friend to a
class to get his mandatory training. 4 hour class,
mostly lecture. The practical portion consisted of each
classmember shooting a single simunition round at a
distance of 5 feet at a 12x12" target. No holster draw,
just hand you the gun, then you rack the slide and fire
once.
After you have paid for the class, you pay an
additional $120 fee to the state of florida for your ccw.
His paperwork was submitted approximately 8 months
ago, and he is still without a ccw. After 4 months, it
was kicked back for something minor (bad fingerprint I
think?). After remedying this and sending it in, he
waited a while and never received his ccw. Apparently
they sent it out to the incorrect address. He is now
paying a, lost permit fee ($15 or $20 I believe) and
again must wait.
I love him, but he is not what I would call "proficient"
or safe with firearms. I am working with him, offering
tips and advice and helping him learn and implement
the safety rules. He is improving, but it is in NO part
due to the mandatory training.

 

[Cobalt 60]

We already have laws against drunk driving and being drunk in public so what's to stop someone from walking to a bar and get drunk, leave and then cause a disturbance? Alcohol makes even the most sound minded person do stupid things. If we go further with your logic with cars and alcohol we shouldn't be able to drive to the store to buy alcohol because we might drink it in the car. Then we won't be able to walk to the store to buy alcohol because we might drink it on the way home. I work in a convenience store, I've seen people do this. Then we won't be able to drink at home because we might beat our wives. So since consuming alcohol may lead to destructive behavior no matter where it's consumed the next logical step would be to ban alcohol and we all know how well that worked.

Taking logic to both ends of the scale isn't common sense.

And we already have laws against possessing a firearm while intoxicated. Thank you for making my point!

You still have not said whether you should be required to go back and have training. That you have to pay for.

 

[strider12]

I agree with almost all of what you said with the exception of these two
1. Mandatory training; i would support mandatory safety training way to many folks are not up to speed on this.
2. Bar carry; nope guns have no place around the consumption of alcohol.

We're doomed.

 

[strider12]

How about no gun laws period?

 

[alnen]

How about no gun laws period?

I'm with you.

 

[bc]

The words if, and, or but do not follow "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” There is a period though.

Rights that can be regulated, can be regulated away. They must be inalienable or they cease to be rights and become mere privileges bestowed by the government, or taken away at any whim.

The Second Amendment IS the law. Nothing more needed.

 

[Tazz]

The words if, and, or but do not follow "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” There is a period though.

Rights that can be regulated, can be regulated away. They must be inalienable or they cease to be rights and become mere privileges bestowed by the government, or taken away at any whim.

The Second Amendment IS the law. Nothing more needed.

^^^^This is extremely well said, thank you.^^^^

 

[Tony2X]

I agree with almost all of what you said with the exception of these two
1. Mandatory training; i would support mandatory safety training way to many folks are not up to speed on this.
2. Bar carry; nope guns have no place around the consumption of alcohol.

I'll add all drugs to that as well. There should be a once a year random drug test for all GCWL holders. As well as for food stamps, unemployment and welfare check recipients.