Why Most Guys Never Kill A Big One

[batoncolle]

Taking does out of a population is the sure fire way to reduce the population.
Taking bucks doesn't harm the population at all, deer aren't monogamous animals. I buck will easily breed 18 or more doe's.

Which is also another reason to "cull" a population of inferior bucks. Irregular racks, albino's, and the small statured all should be culled from a population so to stop those traits from being passed on.

The first part of your post was right on, the second part - not so much. What is cull???

Have you ever watched a deer, either on the camera or in the woods, grow over the years? They change and their racks change every year so what is "irregular" one year, may change the next. Or maybe they were injured on a side one year so the corresponding rack grows a little "irregular," or they are a little smaller. Personally I find "irregular racks" to have the most character, and I am most certainly glad no one culled the 5.5 year drop tine I got this year. He was a nice trashy buck...

Besides for all you guys who care about mounts, who is going to waste their 2 buck kills on culling???

 

[Bear44]

The first part of your post was right on, the second part - not so much. What is cull???

Have you ever watched a deer, either on the camera or in the woods, grow over the years? They change and their racks change every year so what is "irregular" one year, may change the next. Or maybe they were injured on a side one year so the corresponding rack grows a little "irregular," or they are a little smaller. Personally I find "irregular racks" to have the most character, and I am most certainly glad no one culled the 5.5 year drop tine I got this year. He was a nice trashy buck...

Besides for all you guys who care about mounts, who is going to waste their 2 buck kills on culling???

Culling is legit, but you need to be able to judge what you are looking at well. For many years I hunted a property that had some terrible genetics on it. Over the years I killed four spikes that were 3.5 years old. They all had a short right antler and a long left one. The first one I killed I was hunting for meat and didn't realize the age of the deer before killing it. The other three I was intentionally looking for to get them out of the population.

 

[batoncolle]

Culling is legit, but you need to be able to judge what you are looking at well. For many years I hunted a property that had some terrible genetics on it. Over the years I killed four spikes that were 3.5 years old. They all had a short right antler and a long left one. The first one I killed I was hunting for meat and didn't realize the age of the deer before killing it. The other three I was intentionally looking for to get them out of the population.

Culling is an excuse to shoot deer - period. You can not make genetics changes to free ranging herds of deer. Bucks travel for miles during the rut, and they go way outside of what you may consider your property range. And just out of curiosity since bucks only make up 50% of the genetics, how do you go about culling does???

If you have a problem with your bucks, then look at the food and minerals instead of making up excuses to shoot deer. Now if you want to eat it, then knock yourself out.

 

[Bear44]

Culling is an excuse to shoot deer - period. You can not make genetics changes to free ranging herds of deer. Bucks travel for miles during the rut, and they go way outside of what you may consider your property range. And just out of curiosity since bucks only make up 50% of the genetics, how do you go about culling does???

If you have a problem with your bucks, then look at the food and minerals instead of making up excuses to shoot deer. Now if you want to eat it, then knock yourself out.

Everything you say about deer movement and the does is true, but culling poor genetics in bucks can make a difference over time. It just makes sense that if you reduce the chance of a buck with poor genetics breeding a doe it's going to help. And it did. After nine years of me and other club members targeting these old spikes when we saw them there was a distinct improvement in the bucks on the property. Nothing else had changed. Believe what you want, but I have seen it work.

BTW, I don't need an "excuse" to kill any legal deer I want, because I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it.

 

[sinac84]

I thought deer hunting was an excuse to kill a deer...

 

[batoncolle]

Everything you say about deer movement and the does is true, but culling poor genetics in bucks can make a difference over time. It just makes sense that if you reduce the chance of a buck with poor genetics breeding a doe it's going to help. And it did. After nine years of me and other club members targeting these old spikes when we saw them there was a distinct improvement in the bucks on the property. Nothing else had changed. Believe what you want, but I have seen it work.

BTW, I don't need an "excuse" to kill any legal deer I want, because I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it.

I will say it again. You cannot change the genetics of a free ranging herd. If it makes you feel better about shooting "bucks with poor genetics," then call it a cull.

 

[captdave77]

Everything you say about deer movement and the does is true, but culling poor genetics in bucks can make a difference over time. It just makes sense that if you reduce the chance of a buck with poor genetics breeding a doe it's going to help. And it did. After nine years of me and other club members targeting these old spikes when we saw them there was a distinct improvement in the bucks on the property. Nothing else had changed. Believe what you want, but I have seen it work.

BTW, I don't need an "excuse" to kill any legal deer I want, because I don't give a damn about what anyone else thinks about it.

Careful Bear. You are starting to sound like me. LOL

 

[Bear44]

I will say it again. You cannot change the genetics of a free ranging herd. If it makes you feel better about shooting "bucks with poor genetics," then call it a cull.

And I'll say it again. Yes you can. We can do this all day long. LOL!

You say that bucks in rut travel for miles. Some do, but they are typically not the Alpha of an area. He has a core area of about 40 acres that he is most comfortable in and this is where he takes a receptive doe to breed her most of the time. It is the smaller bucks that travel extensively and then primarily when the buck to doe ratio is very good. If there are a lot more does than bucks most bucks will not travel that far from there normal territory, which is typically just under 700 acres. The way Mother nature spreads good genetics to other areas is with the Beta buck. Because he is hard competition for the Alpha he will often get driven completely out of his normal territory during the rut. These are the big bucks that can travel many miles during the rut.

Whitetail deer are not what we generally think of as herd animals at all. They have individual territories that overlap and there are times when they will group up, such as bachelor groups. But they find security in the familiarity of their known territory and they won't leave it unless there is serious motivation to do so.

 

[vernon.45]

The first part of your post was right on, the second part - not so much. What is cull???

Have you ever watched a deer, either on the camera or in the woods, grow over the years? They change and their racks change every year so what is "irregular" one year, may change the next. Or maybe they were injured on a side one year so the corresponding rack grows a little "irregular," or they are a little smaller. Personally I find "irregular racks" to have the most character, and I am most certainly glad no one culled the 5.5 year drop tine I got this year. He was a nice trashy buck...

Besides for all you guys who care about mounts, who is going to waste their 2 buck kills on culling???

Actually i don't care about mounts or racks at all( on deer anyway) I'm one of the hunt for meat crowd. Culling out bad genetics has been proven to work time and time again. If you want to call it "an excuse to shoot deer" then go ahead, but i was under the impression that that's what hunting season was?

If you really want 3-4 year old bucks that are still spikes or 3 pointers breeding the doe's in your area while you keep taking the "prize bucks" then don't be surprised when after a while you can't find any prize bucks because you've got a s*** ton of spikes running around.

 

[batoncolle]

There is no such thing as culling for genetics in a free range herd. It is impossible, and it has never been proven. In fact they can't even do it in high fence areas in TX, the place where this myth generated, which is why they have to have these so-called deer culls every few years. I mean really this is so simple, I can't even believe you guys are saying this. Once again bucks travel for miles during the rut, and if you think only the alpha and/or beta bucks are doing the mating in a core area - well that is just funny. And also how in the world does one cull a doe (which is 1/2 the genetic makeup) for bad genetics??? I mean really how are we even discussing this??? But I will say this, if you truly have found a way to trick mother nature, please send me over your business plan because I am going to sell everything I own to invest in you.

And btw don't just take my word for it...

"If there is any place in North America where deer managers could make an improvement in antler quality through culling, and simultaneously document the results scientifically, it is on the King Ranch in South Texas. On the 825,000-acre King Ranch, goals and methods exceed QDM intensity and extend into a higher range, Trophy Deer Management (TDM). About eight years ago, Mickey and his research partners at the Caesar Kleberg Wildlife Research Institute and the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department set out to examine culling in a well-documented, scientific study. They are currently analyzing the eighth and final year of data in the study. Mickey summarized the results:

“Over eight years of very intensive culling, we weren’t able to show any benefits in terms of improvement in antler quality.”

Actually i don't care about mounts or racks at all( on deer anyway) I'm one of the hunt for meat crowd. Culling out bad genetics has been proven to work time and time again. If you want to call it "an excuse to shoot deer" then go ahead, but i was under the impression that that's what hunting season was?

If you really want 3-4 year old bucks that are still spikes or 3 pointers breeding the doe's in your area while you keep taking the "prize bucks" then don't be surprised when after a while you can't find any prize bucks because you've got a s*** ton of spikes running around.

I am a meat hunter also. In fact until this year, I had never shot a large buck and very few smaller bucks. I have always let bucks walk and just take a couple of does. So I do not have a dog in this fight other than to correct this complete falsehood so newbie hunters are not in the woods actually thinking they can grow every buck into a monster.