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Would you pay $1000 for a heavily used GI 1911?
- Thread starter GeorgiaHunter
- Start date
For a rack grade $1000 is too high. If the intent is to buy a good shooter grade 1911 nothing collectible get something else for less $$ new.
Milsurpcollector I agree hand pick for $1000 , I'd mail order for $500
Milsurpcollector I agree hand pick for $1000 , I'd mail order for $500
If I owned a WWII 1911a1, and it was in typical military used and arsenal parts-swapped, I wonder what I would do with it?
I'd like to carry it, at least on some days, but to be reliable for defensive carry with hollow point ammo the gun's frame would have to be modified(feed ramp polish) and the barrel itself tweaked a bit at the chamber end.
Then I'd want the ejection port relived. All modern 1911s have wider ejection ports than guns of the 1970s and before.
Sights? I'd want bigger and better sights, with colored dots.
More money...
P.S. If I wanted it for target shooting, either slow fire or IDPA type action pistol matches, I would small so have to spend good money on it, for accuracy and ergonomics.
I'd like to carry it, at least on some days, but to be reliable for defensive carry with hollow point ammo the gun's frame would have to be modified(feed ramp polish) and the barrel itself tweaked a bit at the chamber end.
Then I'd want the ejection port relived. All modern 1911s have wider ejection ports than guns of the 1970s and before.
Sights? I'd want bigger and better sights, with colored dots.
More money...
P.S. If I wanted it for target shooting, either slow fire or IDPA type action pistol matches, I would small so have to spend good money on it, for accuracy and ergonomics.
My last year in the Corps I was the NCOIC of the main pistol range at Camp Lejeune, located on the Rifle Range Detachment at Stone Bay. We would still see 1911's come through in the hands of rear echelon units that hadn't been issued the M9 yet. Legal admin pogues and similar.
The last time the US military purchased a standard 1911A1 for general issue was 1945. So, these pistols we were seeing come through the range for qual were around 50 years old, if not older. Worn out as my old combat boots. Slides and frames that did not match, hodge podge of parts, whatever the armorer's had to do to keep them "running". By running, I mean that they went "bang" when you pulled the trigger. I saw many that were so inaccurate that I could not hit a cardboard target 3-out-of-3 times at 25 yards........that's a piece of cardboard that was around 18"x24", if not larger.
Personally, I wouldn't be jazzed to get my hands on something like that, even at a lot less than $1,000.
Special units, like SOTG, that were still running 1911's had ones that were accurate, but had been highly modified. Bomar sights, Kart barrels, etc. Ugly as sin, and still a mismatch of parts, but they ran and were accurate. Again, not worth $1,000 to me.
When I shot competitively in the Corps, our 1911's were again a hodgepodge of old 1911A1 slides and frames, not always matching, with all new Kart barrels, Bomar sights, and internals. Basically, a very accurate Frankengun. Even some of those were worn out. I saw one go full-auto with a 5 round mag inserted. The cyclic rate was ungodly fast! Sounded like a loud burp.
I have an Ithaca 1911 that my maternal Grandfather brought back from WWII. She runs great and is accurate, all original parts. The reason that she is so nice is because she left military service in the hands of her second owner, when she was 5 years old or less. Been shot quite a bit since then, but nothing like a general issue USGI pistol would see, and she has been maintained much better.
I could go to the next gun show, walk around for an hour or two, buy all the parts I need off of 12 different tables, and built a 1911 that would be identical to the ones I saw during my tour on the range.
The last time the US military purchased a standard 1911A1 for general issue was 1945. So, these pistols we were seeing come through the range for qual were around 50 years old, if not older. Worn out as my old combat boots. Slides and frames that did not match, hodge podge of parts, whatever the armorer's had to do to keep them "running". By running, I mean that they went "bang" when you pulled the trigger. I saw many that were so inaccurate that I could not hit a cardboard target 3-out-of-3 times at 25 yards........that's a piece of cardboard that was around 18"x24", if not larger.
Personally, I wouldn't be jazzed to get my hands on something like that, even at a lot less than $1,000.
Special units, like SOTG, that were still running 1911's had ones that were accurate, but had been highly modified. Bomar sights, Kart barrels, etc. Ugly as sin, and still a mismatch of parts, but they ran and were accurate. Again, not worth $1,000 to me.
When I shot competitively in the Corps, our 1911's were again a hodgepodge of old 1911A1 slides and frames, not always matching, with all new Kart barrels, Bomar sights, and internals. Basically, a very accurate Frankengun. Even some of those were worn out. I saw one go full-auto with a 5 round mag inserted. The cyclic rate was ungodly fast! Sounded like a loud burp.
I have an Ithaca 1911 that my maternal Grandfather brought back from WWII. She runs great and is accurate, all original parts. The reason that she is so nice is because she left military service in the hands of her second owner, when she was 5 years old or less. Been shot quite a bit since then, but nothing like a general issue USGI pistol would see, and she has been maintained much better.
I could go to the next gun show, walk around for an hour or two, buy all the parts I need off of 12 different tables, and built a 1911 that would be identical to the ones I saw during my tour on the range.
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I think it's outstanding that old US military issue firearms are going into the hands of civilians, I'm all for it. Much better than them being cut up or mothballed. I just don't see anyone getting a collector's piece out of this. I would very much like to be wrong, though!
I'll admit that my experience is dated but the armorers weren't particular about what frame went with what slide or barrel. The 1911's I shot were loose at best. These will have no historical significance. Mil-spec for a grand with potential mix parts? I'll pass.
The Director of the CMP only sees these pistols as a way to fund operations. They could get away with charging $600 or more for a clapped-out M1 that had been abused for decades by Greek conscripts because there were few other M1 options available to American shooters. However, there are plenty of new production high quality 1911 options that come in under a grand that make paying a thousand bucks for a rattly old gun with a typewriter manufacturer's name on it a silly proposition.
The CMP needs to wise up and price these accordingly. Yes it will receive some new condition, correct grade examples, and those from the rare(er) makers like Union Switch and Signal and Singer will be priced higher, but I'll be damned if I'll pay a grand for a beat up old Remington Rand. I MIGHT be able to justify paying that price for a well used Colt if it had all WWII factory correct parts, but what we'll be offered are mix-masters.
I was in the Army when we transitioned from the 1911 to the M9. Nobody - and I mean NOBODY - lamented the loss of the 1911. There's a lot of weepy eyed nostalgia out there for the USGI 1911's, and a lot of internet commandos are absolutely convinced that when we gave up on the 1911 it was the beginning of the end for the US military. That's horse hockey. The USGI 1911's had lousy sights, lousy triggers, rattled like a pair of dice in a cup and were so worn out that everybody sweated annual pistol qualifications. When the Beretta's came on board pistol qualification scores went up, way up. Say what you want about the 9mm round, but a hit with a 9 beats a miss with a 45 every time.
The CMP needs to wise up and price these accordingly. Yes it will receive some new condition, correct grade examples, and those from the rare(er) makers like Union Switch and Signal and Singer will be priced higher, but I'll be damned if I'll pay a grand for a beat up old Remington Rand. I MIGHT be able to justify paying that price for a well used Colt if it had all WWII factory correct parts, but what we'll be offered are mix-masters.
I was in the Army when we transitioned from the 1911 to the M9. Nobody - and I mean NOBODY - lamented the loss of the 1911. There's a lot of weepy eyed nostalgia out there for the USGI 1911's, and a lot of internet commandos are absolutely convinced that when we gave up on the 1911 it was the beginning of the end for the US military. That's horse hockey. The USGI 1911's had lousy sights, lousy triggers, rattled like a pair of dice in a cup and were so worn out that everybody sweated annual pistol qualifications. When the Beretta's came on board pistol qualification scores went up, way up. Say what you want about the 9mm round, but a hit with a 9 beats a miss with a 45 every time.
I've been collecting USGI 1911's for a long time now, and every year that goes by makes me more glad that I already have every variant I want that is reasonably attainable. The days of finding matching parts guns in decent shape for 800-900 and mismatched shooters for 600-700 are long gone. 1000 is more than I'd want to pay for anything you're likely to find in the CMP 1911's, but I have no doubt they'll have much trouble selling them at that price. USGI 1911's are a finite market, and the prices for even rough mismatched pieces are only going to continue to rise.
And anyone that actually thinks they're going to find one of the 50-60 surviving Singers at the CMP needs a piss test.
And anyone that actually thinks they're going to find one of the 50-60 surviving Singers at the CMP needs a piss test.
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No there are a lot of guns I would enjoy a lot more in that price range
