A more REALISTIC dry fire training session

[Bear44]

I've always shot better fast than re-zeroing for every shot. But I did agree with mostly on the recoil point.

In any case, as I said, I'm using a SIRT, and it has definitely tightened my shots up to .5-1" shots. Actually, I give the credit to the SIRT for helping me shoot two eyes open, and no aiming, just point and shoot.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Yep, for those things, dry fire definitely helps. I also use it a lot to practice deployment of the weapon and reloads.

 

[sheep dog]

Yeah, to each there own, but how can simply repeatedly pulling a trigger on an inert object in any way prepare you for pulling the same trigger when the weapon violently jumps with each round fired?

I agree that dry fire drills have a lot of value and that's why I do them. They definitely help with accuracy on individual rounds fired, but the moment rate of fire classifies as "rapid" (which to me means fastest possible recovery and the next round fired) dry fire is worthless. What it will do is greatly increase the likelihood that you will be firing at a rate that you will lose accuracy, because you have programmed your body to shoot without recoil, which you can obviously do much faster than you can with recoil.

The way pulling a trigger on an inert object helps is like this. The dry fire mag has an adjustable trigger pull and reset. If you just "rapid fire" the gun with the dry fire mag without really focusing and paying attention you will see the muzzle dancing around shifting to left and right (because the trigger pull poundage weighs more than the gun) and you will even "pull shots down" as you anticipate the pull, so as you practice with it and are intentional you will start to see the gun not move and not disrupt sight picture as you pull the trigger and shoot of reset. I would see my "shots pull" doing continual trigger pulls when i first started using it and still will if i loose focus. If you are disrupting sight picture dry firing, the bullet leaving the muzzle with live fire will show ya what you are doing wrong. If there was no trigger pull poundage on this device, i could see it being more on the useless side. But i have gotten tighter "rapid fire" shots live from dry fire mag training so it works for me. I can notice it when i give someone else the mag and they try it on one of the ways i use it which is as follows (this is for trigger manipulation on point). So i swing a heavy bag from left to right, step back and shoot at a target behind the bag on the wall with double taps. The idea is when the bag swings left you shoot on the right side (2 quick trigger pulls) before the bag swings back in front of you). When it swings to the right you transition to the left. It will swing back and forth and i will get in minimum, 10 2 shot groups (2 on left, 2 on right, repeat, before bag stops). The longer it swings the less time you have as it starts to stop swinging making it harder as you go on. A few buddies can only get one shot off before it swings back. I had a similar problem initially but now i can do 2 trigger pulls WITHOUT DISRUPTING SIGHT PICTURE before it swings back. That is just one example of many. That you do drawing from concealment amidst heavy bag drills with kicking and punching, etc. Heart rate up, heavy breathing, need that much more focus and intent in what you do.

 

[Bear44]

The way pulling a trigger on an inert object helps is like this. The dry fire mag has an adjustable trigger pull and reset. If you just "rapid fire" the gun with the dry fire mag without really focusing and paying attention you will see the muzzle dancing around shifting to left and right (because the trigger pull poundage weighs more than the gun) and you will even "pull shots down" as you anticipate the pull, so as you practice with it and are intentional you will start to see the gun not move and not disrupt sight picture as you pull the trigger and shoot of reset. I would see my "shots pull" doing continual trigger pulls when i first started using it and still will if i loose focus. If you are disrupting sight picture dry firing, the bullet leaving the muzzle with live fire will show ya what you are doing wrong. If there was no trigger pull poundage on this device, i could see it being more on the useless side. But i have gotten tighter "rapid fire" shots live from dry fire mag training so it works for me. I can notice it when i give someone else the mag and they try it on one of the ways i use it which is as follows (this is for trigger manipulation on point). So i swing a heavy bag from left to right, step back and shoot at a target behind the bag on the wall with double taps. The idea is when the bag swings left you shoot on the right side (2 quick trigger pulls) before the bag swings back in front of you). When it swings to the right you transition to the left. It will swing back and forth and i will get in about 10 2 shot groups. The longer it swings the less time you have as it starts to stop swinging making it harder as you go on. A few buddies can only get one shot off before it swings back. I had a similar problem initially but now i can do 2 trigger pulls WITHOUT DISRUPTING SIGHT PICTURE before it swings back. That is just one example of many

As I have said, dry fire does help with accuracy, but it does not help with recoil recovery, thus rapid dry fire does no good. It sounds like the only real benefit to this devise is that you don't have to go through the trouble of manually resetting the trigger between dry fire shots. I also wonder how closely it can reproduce the feel of the actual trigger on any particular weapon. Unless it is somehow resetting the trigger. Does it?

 

[sheep dog]

As I have said, dry fire does help with accuracy, but it does not help with recoil recovery, thus rapid dry fire does no good. It sounds like the only real benefit to this devise is that you don't have to go through the trouble of manually resetting the trigger between dry fire shots. I also wonder how closely it can reproduce the feel of the actual trigger on any particular weapon. Unless it is somehow resetting the trigger. Does it?

Did you read what i just said? Not being sarcastic. I just explained how it works with the trigger pull and reset. And how the rapid fire practice help in live fire.If you cant get off shots like my example with the heavy bag just in working a glock factory trigger pull and off the reset (which u get with this device or even heavier trigger pull if you set it there). ya def wont be able to with recoil

 

[Bear44]

Did you read what i just said? Not being sarcastic. I just explained how it works with the trigger pull and reset. And how the rapid fire practice help in live fire.If you cant get off shots like my example with the heavy bag just in working a glock factory trigger pull and off the reset (which u get with this device or even heavier trigger pull if you set it there). ya def wont be able to with recoil

I understood what you said. I don't think you're getting the point I'm making.

What's that old saying? "Train like you fight and fight like you train." I don't know of anyone that has won a gunfight by training to "Rapid Fire" an empty gun. Rapid fire isn't about being able to pull the trigger fast. It's about being able to manage and recover from recoil fast. No recoil, no training.

 

[BobcatMan]

" in time of danger, you better be prepared to protect yourself and your loved ones, by being better practiced" ? im kind of at a loss for words for that last closing statement

 

[BobcatMan]

I understood what you said. I don't think you're getting the point I'm making.

What's that old saying? "Train like you fight and fight like you train." I don't know of anyone that has won a gunfight by training to "Rapid Fire" an empty gun. Rapid fire isn't about being able to pull the trigger fast. It's about being able to manage and recover from recoil fast. No recoil, no training.

i agree with this. maybe there should be a poll to get an accurate opinion. if you need to train with that then your not a natural thats forsure.

 

[sheep dog]

I understood what you said. I don't think you're getting the point I'm making.

What's that old saying? "Train like you fight and fight like you train." I don't know of anyone that has won a gunfight by training to "Rapid Fire" an empty gun. Rapid fire isn't about being able to pull the trigger fast. It's about being able to manage and recover from recoil fast. No recoil, no training.

"Train like ya fight, fight like ya train." when i was doing a lot of dry fire practice with snap caps only, i did a lot of draw from concealment and fired a shot, racked the slide to eject snap cap and pull the trigger again. Everytime i pulled the trigger i had to rack the slide to eject a snap cap and chamber a new round. When shooting outdoors. I (because of training/muscle memory) drew pistol, fired a shot and immediately racked slide ejecting a live round, chambering a new round and wasting time doing it. Not something i wanna do in a fight so not how i wanna always train when dry firing. I would not have thought i would have done that with live fire but...it was instilled from training that way. I have already stated that by using this device in addition to other training, my shots have gotten better and faster. Even "rapid fire shots" are better. Take recoil out of the picture for a moment. If ya have trouble working the trigger throttle control with no recoil impulse (remember, you are working a trigger pull weight that is more than weight of gun and need to not move sights off target from bad trigger press), it would be good to remedy that. I agree if i could do dry fire with a devise that simulates recoil, that would be ideal. But since i only get recoil with bullets and cant shoot everyday, i look for ways to supplement (not replace) live fire. This is one of those ways. So if i have seen progress in doing this when shooting live fire, it makes it difficult to agree with you that its useless and teaches my body wrong things when in fact it has been useful and made me better.

 

[jkdailey]

Love the internet. Never know what to believe...

 

[sheep dog]

Love the internet. Never know what to believe...

"If you read it on the internet, its true." -Abraham Lincoln