A more REALISTIC dry fire training session

[Bear44]

"Train like ya fight, fight like ya train." when i was doing a lot of dry fire practice with snap caps only, i did a lot of draw from concealment and fired a shot, racked the slide to eject snap cap and pull the trigger again. Everytime i pulled the trigger i had to rack the slide to eject a snap cap and chamber a new round. When shooting outdoors. I (because of training/muscle memory) drew pistol, fired a shot and immediately racked slide ejecting a live round, chambering a new round and wasting time doing it. Not something i wanna do in a fight so not how i wanna always train when dry firing. I would not have thought i would have done that with live fire but...it was instilled from training that way. I have already stated that by using this device in addition to other training, my shots have gotten better and faster. Even "rapid fire shots" are better. Take recoil out of the picture for a moment. If ya have trouble working the trigger throttle control with no recoil impulse (remember, you are working a trigger pull weight that is more than weight of gun and need to not move sights off target from bad trigger press), it would be good to remedy that. I agree if i could do dry fire with a devise that simulates recoil, that would be ideal. But since i only get recoil with bullets and cant shoot everyday, i look for ways to supplement (not replace) live fire. This is one of those ways. So if i have seen progress in doing this when shooting live fire, it makes it difficult to agree with you that its useless and teaches my body wrong things when in fact it has been useful and made me better.

You make my point for me. DON'T try to rapid fire while dry firing. You were raking the slide uselessly because that's how you trained during dry fire. Don't do that.

The negative body programming you experienced was obvious, so you fixed it. The negative body programming you get from just repeatedly pulling the trigger without having to deal with the primary limiting factor in rapid fire, recoil, is also creating negative body programming because you are very likely to try and do rapid live fire the way you have body programmed during rapid dry fire. It can't be done.

As for you improving in rapid live fire, there are two things to consider. First, accuracy over all will improve with dry fire drills. Second, I think your definition of rapid fire and mine are different. My definition is that, if I am sighting on follow up shots, I am puling the trigger as the muzzle drops back down from recoil because I have practiced rapid live fire enough so that the muzzle stops on target with no further adjustment necessary. At least that's how it happens when I'm well practiced and it is always the goal. There is simply no way to practice that skill in any way without the element of recoil. In my experience, it is also the most perishable of shooting skills. It quickly degrades unless you are constantly driving the body programming home by practicing it. There is simply no way practicing a rapid fire skill without recoil is not going to degrade that skill even more quickly.

Hell, if I'm really rusty I don't even rapid fire to start regaining the skill. I slow fire while paying very close attention to where my muzzle stops from recoil after each round is fired. I'm not doing this to get faster at getting the sight on target after it stops someplace other than on target. I'm doing it to adjust my grip positioning and tension before and during the shot so that it does stop on target after recoil. That is the key to real rapid fire.

 

[Bear44]

Love the internet. Never know what to believe...

But you can use logic to assess the merit of each opinion.

 

[GAgunLAWbooklet]

Yeah, dry firing is NOT as good as shooting live ammo.
I get that.
But if for some reason you can't or won't shoot enough live ammo, is DRY FIRING BETTER THAN NOT GETTING ANY TRIGGER TIME ON YOUR WEAPON AT ALL?

I think so.
I also like the idea of doing backyard or basement practice with airguns, air-soft guns, or even your own real guns with special short-distance training ammo, even if that ammo has little or no recoil.
Wax bullets, plastic bullets (both fired with just a primer; no gunpowder in the case), or a new idea I had:

Lead airgun pellets shoved down into a special chamber insert that uses a primer to push that pellet thru a short section of rifled bore, getting it up to maybe 500 f.p.s. velocity, to use to hit paper or reactive targets (balloons, Plastic cups of water) at close range (out to 7 yards maybe).

.177 pellets are less than a penny each. Even .22 airgun pellets are just a little more than that, and they'd make a nice hole in the target to give you immediate visual feedback.

I think the primary value of these would be for drills where you draw and fire one shot ASAP.
Rather than reach up and rack the slide for a second shot, you'd reload, reholster, and do the drill again.

Revolver shooters, however, could pop off all of their sub-caliber rounds as fast as they'd like, using the normal grip and trigger pull.

 

[Bear44]

Yeah, dry firing is NOT as good as shooting live ammo.
I get that.
But if for some reason you can't or won't shoot enough live ammo, is DRY FIRING BETTER THAN NOT GETTING ANY TRIGGER TIME ON YOUR WEAPON AT ALL?

I think so.
I also like the idea of doing backyard or basement practice with airguns, air-soft guns, or even your own real guns with special short-distance training ammo, even if that ammo has little or no recoil.
Wax bullets, plastic bullets (both fired with just a primer; no gunpowder in the case), or a new idea I had:

Lead airgun pellets shoved down into a special chamber insert that uses a primer to push that pellet thru a short section of rifled bore, getting it up to maybe 500 f.p.s. velocity, to use to hit paper or reactive targets (balloons, Plastic cups of water) at close range (out to 7 yards maybe).

.177 pellets are less than a penny each. Even .22 airgun pellets are just a little more than that, and they'd make a nice hole in the target to give you immediate visual feedback.

I think the primary value of these would be for drills where you draw and fire one shot ASAP.
Rather than reach up and rack the slide for a second shot, you'd reload, reholster, and do the drill again.

Revolver shooters, however, could pop off all of their sub-caliber rounds as fast as they'd like, using the normal grip and trigger pull.

I like all of this post except the last line. No rapid fire.

 

[Robroyb]

I do all of the above, mixing it up, so that I don't create muscle memory which could get me killed in a real life scenario. All that said, I believe rapid shooting in a dry fire practice is important, otherwise the development of muscle memory to only shoot slow will be an issue because of the lack of dry fire practice.

Practicing dry and rapid hasn't hurt my accuracy from what I can tell, but aside from that, I don't want to leave out an important part of shooting in dry fire practice even if it isn't as good as doing so live. Shooting fast, slow, multiple targets, on the move, etc., every time differently from the previous time is the best way in my humble opinion.

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[sheep dog]

I do all of the above, mixing it up, so that I don't create muscle memory which could get me killed in a real life scenario. All that said, I believe rapid shooting in a dry fire practice is important, otherwise the development of muscle memory to only shoot slow will be an issue because of the lack of dry fire practice.

Practicing dry and rapid hasn't hurt my accuracy from what I can tell, but aside from that, I don't want to leave out an important part of shooting in dry fire practice even if it isn't as good as doing so live. Shooting fast, slow, multiple targets, on the move, etc., every time differently from the previous time is the best way in my humble opinion.

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As is the humble opinion of many pro shooters and firearms and tactics trainers. Which is why people utilize tools like a sirt pistol, dry fire mag, etc. However, as with all other topics, people will see advantages and disadvantages in differing ways. Its kinda like centerline/appendix carry. I see it as a very advantageous method of carry in many regards, and having switched to it myself a while back, will never go back to strong side carry... others see it only as "you'll shoot your weiner off!" or some other bogus reason you shouldnt do it. If it aids in your training...rock on!

 

[Bear44]

As is the humble opinion of many pro shooters and firearms and tactics trainers. Which is why people utilize tools like a sirt pistol, dry fire mag, etc. However, as with all other topics, people will see advantages and disadvantages in differing ways. Its kinda like centerline/appendix carry. I see it as a very advantageous method of carry in many regards, and having switched to it myself a while back, will never go back to strong side carry... others see it only as "you'll shoot your weiner off!" or some other bogus reason you shouldnt do it. If it aids in your training...rock on!

I'm always up for learning something new. Who are the pro shooters and firearms and tactics trainers that recommend training rapid fire with dry fire drills? I'd like to read their recommendations and learn those drills.

 

[sheep dog]

I'm always up for learning something new. Who are the pro shooters and firearms and tactics trainers that recommend training rapid fire with dry fire drills? I'd like to read their recommendations and learn those drills.

The first four individuals that come to mind that havegood insight on the matter is john lovell with warrior poet society (warrior poet society has many good youtube videos). He is also with telurric training here in ga. The other individual is baret fawbush (truexodus is his tag also). they both have either youtube or instagram videos about sirt pistol/dry fire drills. Robert vogel is the third (a pro shooter). He actually speaks about the benefit of the dry fire mag on the dry fire mag website as do others. Honestly, i was hesitant in the purchase initially but having had it for several months now and using it very regularly, i have seen much progress in my trigger control and it does what it says it does on the site. Lenny magill (glock store guy) has some stuff on reset trigger dry fire kits as well. I have come across other videos/articles on this type of trigger press training but these 4 guys are ones that stick out by name by memory

 

[Robroyb]

I like John Lovell's YouTube site. I'll check out the others, esp for the SIRT drills. New ideas are always good.

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[sheep dog]

I like John Lovell's YouTube site. I'll check out the others, esp for the SIRT drills. New ideas are always good.

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I like him a lot. I respect him a lot too. You can see he is a man of character and integrity. Not a g.i. joke or tactical timmie kind of guy but the real deal...