And you think ammo is expensive??

[Bear44]

what makes a "backyard breeder"? the AKC loves to use that term for some reason. most registries seem to be designed to control who makes the money.

Not who makes the money. Who makes the breed.

Good breeders actually don't make much money due to the amount of money they put into the puppies and the cost of showing or competing the dogs. There are exceptions, but they are rare and very elite dogs. The focus of good breeders is the Breed Standard. Their goal is to create the most perfect example of that standard they possibly can. This may be changing. The recent increase in cost of pure bred dogs is kind of over the top.

Puppy Mills pump out the highest number of puppies they can and still claim they are "Pure Bred" dogs. They are responsible for seriously screwing up a variety of breeds that became popular.

Backyard breeders are either folks that try to be show or sporting dog breeders, but have no idea what they are doing and don't last long. Or more likely they are folks that simply have a couple of dogs they like and want to make more.

There are also breeders that go their own road without a care about the rest of the dog world.

 

[gh1950]

We had one litter of Weims, so I guess that makes up backyard breeders. That was our goal, and we didn't do it any more because we didn't need/want to.

We made all purchasers fill out an application, and turned down a couple.

Both parents had health and hip guarantees. You can't get a definitive hip xray until they are 2 years old, so we guaranteed that for the pups. Truly I don't know what we would have done if someone had brought back a dog with bad hips.

We guaranteed temperament, which is a percentage play, because just like kids, every now and then one is just bat **** crazy.

And we guaranteed that if the owner had to give up the dog and couldn't place it, instead of putting a flyer on a telephone post, they could return the dog to us, and we would see that it got a good placement.

This is what I would consider the minimum for a "good breeder".

We made some money, and we were asking top dollar which we got - but it doesn't work out to much when you include the vet bills, the xrays, the stud fee, and your time caring for the pups. We were able to get the loan of a whelping crate, which was a blessing, because what the pups do best is poop. It seems scientifically impossible for that amount of poop to come from tiny bodies that are only drinking milk.

 

[William A. Ellis]

Check out Alcovy Pet Rescue, we have had 3 dogs from them, they have all been great dogs.

 

[Bear44]

We had one litter of Weims, so I guess that makes up backyard breeders. That was our goal, and we didn't do it any more because we didn't need/want to.

We made all purchasers fill out an application, and turned down a couple.

Both parents had health and hip guarantees. You can't get a definitive hip xray until they are 2 years old, so we guaranteed that for the pups. Truly I don't know what we would have done if someone had brought back a dog with bad hips.

We guaranteed temperament, which is a percentage play, because just like kids, every now and then one is just bat **** crazy.

And we guaranteed that if the owner had to give up the dog and couldn't place it, instead of putting a flyer on a telephone post, they could return the dog to us, and we would see that it got a good placement.

This is what I would consider the minimum for a "good breeder".

We made some money, and we were asking top dollar which we got - but it doesn't work out to much when you include the vet bills, the xrays, the stud fee, and your time caring for the pups. We were able to get the loan of a whelping crate, which was a blessing, because what the pups do best is poop. It seems scientifically impossible for that amount of poop to come from tiny bodies that are only drinking milk.

Yes, that is good breeding.

 

[oldgoat]

Not who makes the money. Who makes the breed.

Good breeders actually don't make much money due to the amount of money they put into the puppies and the cost of showing or competing the dogs. There are exceptions, but they are rare and very elite dogs. The focus of good breeders is the Breed Standard. Their goal is to create the most perfect example of that standard they possibly can. This may be changing. The recent increase in cost of pure bred dogs is kind of over the top.

Puppy Mills pump out the highest number of puppies they can and still claim they are "Pure Bred" dogs. They are responsible for seriously screwing up a variety of breeds that became popular.

Backyard breeders are either folks that try to be show or sporting dog breeders, but have no idea what they are doing and don't last long. Or more likely they are folks that simply have a couple of dogs they like and want to make more.

There are also breeders that go their own road without a care about the rest of the dog world.

yeah, i'm pretty sure stud fees and semen are profitable. then again, i think show dogs are bad for any working breeds. rat terriers have all but had the prey drive bred out of them between puppy mills and show breeders.
i raise a litter every couple of years and my pups are vet checked before they leave and get shipped all over the country. i only make a cross when i want a pup and after paying the vet, and keeping a pup out of generally small litters i still make a little money selling them at 300 each.
i don't believe "breeders don't make money" but i also wouldn't buy dogs known for winning bench contests vs. dogs known for hunting. my point is that plenty of actual working dogs come from backyard breeders and most likely less come from show dog breeders. then again, i don't buy dogs anymore, i started rolling my own 7 or 8 years ago.

 

[oldgoat]

We had one litter of Weims, so I guess that makes up backyard breeders. That was our goal, and we didn't do it any more because we didn't need/want to.

We made all purchasers fill out an application, and turned down a couple.

Both parents had health and hip guarantees. You can't get a definitive hip xray until they are 2 years old, so we guaranteed that for the pups. Truly I don't know what we would have done if someone had brought back a dog with bad hips.

We guaranteed temperament, which is a percentage play, because just like kids, every now and then one is just bat **** crazy.

And we guaranteed that if the owner had to give up the dog and couldn't place it, instead of putting a flyer on a telephone post, they could return the dog to us, and we would see that it got a good placement.

This is what I would consider the minimum for a "good breeder".

We made some money, and we were asking top dollar which we got - but it doesn't work out to much when you include the vet bills, the xrays, the stud fee, and your time caring for the pups. We were able to get the loan of a whelping crate, which was a blessing, because what the pups do best is poop. It seems scientifically impossible for that amount of poop to come from tiny bodies that are only drinking milk.

the mother doesn't clean up behind the pups when they're still on milk only?

 

[Bear44]

yeah, i'm pretty sure stud fees and semen are profitable. then again, i think show dogs are bad for any working breeds. rat terriers have all but had the prey drive bred out of them between puppy mills and show breeders.
i raise a litter every couple of years and my pups are vet checked before they leave and get shipped all over the country. i only make a cross when i want a pup and after paying the vet, and keeping a pup out of generally small litters i still make a little money selling them at 300 each.
i don't believe "breeders don't make money" but i also wouldn't buy dogs known for winning bench contests vs. dogs known for hunting. my point is that plenty of actual working dogs come from backyard breeders and most likely less come from show dog breeders. then again, i don't buy dogs anymore, i started rolling my own 7 or 8 years ago.

Show dogs and working dogs are very different animals even when they are the same breed. You'll occasionally find a breeder that does both in the same line of dogs successfully, but it's rare. Show breeders and working breeders simply have different goals, so that's what they focus on. One is no better than the other.

As for breeders making money, I didn't say they don't make any, but they don't make nearly as much as most people think they do. Even you left out all the expenses of seriously competing a dog and that's typically a lot of money being spent. Successfully competing is what it's all about for good professional breeders and that's the proof of a quality bloodline. It doesn't matter if the competition is confirmation, field trials or whatever.

 

[Bear44]

the mother doesn't clean up behind the pups when they're still on milk only?

A lot of people use washable bedding in a whelping box. The upside is that you can wash it. The down side is that it absorbs some of the waste and momma can't get it completely clean.

 

[oldgoat]

Show dogs and working dogs are very different animals even when they are the same breed. You'll occasionally find a breeder that does both in the same line of dogs successfully, but it's rare. Show breeders and working breeders simply have different goals, so that's what they focus on. One is no better than the other.

As for breeders making money, I didn't say they don't make any, but they don't make nearly as much as most people think they do. Even you left out all the expenses of seriously competing a dog and that's typically a lot of money being spent. Successfully competing is what it's all about for good professional breeders and that's the proof of a quality bloodline. It doesn't matter if the competition is confirmation, field trials or whatever.

i pleasure hunt. pluses, minuses, circles and trophies don't mean anything to me. there is a dog out of a litter i had a few years ago that has done well in the competition world, though.
i agree that show dog people and working dog people have different goals. when i had bloodhounds i learned that.
i just don't think backyard breeders are automatically puppy mills or uneducated breeders like you suggest. i think with the exception of a handful of people that breeders in the hunting dog world are backyard breeders for the most part.
there are difinitely people that make a living off of breeding hunting dogs to death, though. there are dogs that have spent their entire lives in a kennel raising pups (in the show and working dog world).

 

[Bear44]

i pleasure hunt. pluses, minuses, circles and trophies don't mean anything to me. there is a dog out of a litter i had a few years ago that has done well in the competition world, though.
i agree that show dog people and working dog people have different goals. when i had bloodhounds i learned that.
i just don't think backyard breeders are automatically puppy mills or uneducated breeders like you suggest. i think with the exception of a handful of people that breeders in the hunting dog world are backyard breeders for the most part.
there are difinitely people that make a living off of breeding hunting dogs to death, though. there are dogs that have spent their entire lives in a kennel raising pups (in the show and working dog world).

"i just don't think backyard breeders are automatically puppy mills or uneducated breeders like you suggest."

Please point out where I suggest this. I said some of them are failed show or working dog breeders, but I never even came close to saying they are puppy mills.