Anyone need a trust?

[Laxguy59]

I thought that was a pretty bold claim, one which wouldn't mean **** if the ATF decided to come after you. Combine that with the government can take your guns if you dont pay us $200 to create a trust is akin to a a shister lawyer chasing ambulances. Not to mention that they operate on a $20/referral business model. Sucker born every minute,

I ****ing hate agreeing with you, or you agreeing with me, whatever this miserable exchange was.

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Doug King will be missed

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btw can you use the gwl to purchase these items with a trust?

you fill out a 4473 when you pick it up, so yes

 

[ugagrad04]

I ****ing hate agreeing with you, or you agreeing with me, whatever this miserable exchange was.

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you fill out a 4473 when you pick it up, so yes

lulz

 

[Lockout]

I ****ing hate agreeing with you, or you agreeing with me, whatever this miserable exchange was.

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you fill out a 4473 when you pick it up, so yes

gotcha thanks

 

[Spas-12 Owner]

Maybe I missed it, but does the same trust cover SBR?

 

[ugagrad04]

Maybe I missed it, but does the same trust cover SBR?

SBR=NFA item so yes. Silencers, transferable machine guns, SBR's AOW's are all NFA

 

[Spas-12 Owner]

SBR=NFA item so yes. Silencers, transferable machine guns, SBR's AOW's are all NFA

I assumed that. Just wanted to know.

Thank you.

 

[Triathloncoach]

This is the kind of **** that pisses me off. You'd think that a lawyer who was so well versed in NFA laws that he is creating trusts would know that this is bull****

"Without a trust, any firearms you own that fall under the jurisdiction of the NFA and are in your name could go to the government when you die."


Even if your NFA items are NOT in a trust if you die they don't go to the government. In fact your heirs can have them transferred into their name for free buy submitting an ATF form 5. They don't have to pay another $200 per item. This jerk is using scare tactics to fleece unsuspecting morons out of $200

Directly from the ATF website


For registered NFA firearms in the estate, the executor should take action as soon as possible to arrange for the proper registration of the firearms. Possession of an NFA firearm not registered to the possessor is a violation of Federal law and the firearm is subject to seizure and forfeiture. However, we do allow the executor a reasonable time to arrange for the transfer of the registered firearms in a decedent's estate. This generally should be done before probate is closed.

It is the responsibility of the executor of the estate to maintain custody and control of the firearms and to transfer the firearms registered to the decedent. The firearms may not be transferred to another party, such as a firearms licensee, for consignment or safekeeping. This would be a transfer subject to the requirements of the NFA. The licensee may assist the executor by identifying purchasers and acting as a broker.

The firearms may be transferred on a tax-exempt basis to a lawful heir. The executor would apply on ATF Form 5, Application for Tax Exempt Transfer and Registration of a Firearm, for a tax-exempt transfer to a lawful heir. A lawful heir is anyone named in the decedent's will or, in the absence of a will, anyone entitled to inherit under the laws of the State in which the decedent last resided. NFA firearms may be transferred directly interstate to a beneficiary of the estate. When a firearm is being transferred to an individual heir, his or her fingerprints on FBI Forms FD-258 must accompany the transfer application. However, if any Federal, State or local law prohibits the heir from receiving or possessing the firearm, ATF will not approve the application.

ATF Form 4 is used to apply for the taxpaid transfer of a serviceable NFA firearm to a person outside the estate (not a beneficiary). ATF Form 5 is also used to apply for the tax-exempt transfer of an unserviceable NFA firearm to a person outside the estate. As noted above, all requirements, such as fingerprint cards for transfers to individuals and compliance with State or local law, must be met before an application may be approved. If an NFA firearm in the estate was imported for use as a "sales sample," this restriction on the firearm's possession remains. The NFA firearm may only be transferred to a Federal firearms licensee who has paid the special (occupational) tax to deal in NFA firearms or to a government agency.

Whew! I have a masters degree in finance from a decent school. Took a few business law classes at Rutgers School of Law. Worked in sales, marketing and finance for several Fortune 100 Companies for 20 years. How easy would it be for me to research and learn what you stated above? How much time would it take? How confident should I feel that I didn't make a mistake? What you wrote above is not something I could easily research and replicate. And I aint no ignorant retart.

Maybe I will go your route, maybe some kind ODT member will help me.

But you might want to take a breath and realize most folks aren't as well versed as you, and it might require significantly more than $200 of their time to get to what you describe as clear and simple. And they may still do it wrong. And it may cost them a $200 stamp and 7 months of waiting to discover their mistake.

And if the owners of this website that provides so much free entertainment AND an easy way to get far more for your guns than to sell them to a shop wholesale, (I remember you selling a gun or two on here in the not too distant past, what % of the sales proceeds did you give OS?) - if OS chooses to support those businesses that keep this site running, you should show a good deal more respect and discretion with your narrow minded diatribe. I am obviously not a moderator, as you are not permanently banned.

 

[nocman_2]

After reading a lot of the comments on this thread I came up with one conclusion..

many responces have similar characteristics and should be represented with a new smiley emoticon that shows someone's "panties in a bunch"

 

[Okuma]

It makes me mad that people are so ignorant of NFA laws that they will blindly hand over $200 or even $500 to a lawyer who uses a generic form that is nearly identical to Willmaker and uses scare tactics based on no merit to fleece people out of $$$$

You made my point for me: people, including me, are ignorant of the NFA laws so yes, they will hand over $200 to a lawyer. I paid for mine and would gladly do it again. To me, I'd rather pay $200 and feel relatively secure that everything was done correctly than bust out quicken will maker and try it out for myself when I have no clue what I'm doing. A lot of people see guns and NFA items as an area where they don't want to take a gamble on doing something they have absolutely no experience in doing.

If we were talking about $5,000 or something I would have much more motivation to research it myself.

Doug King basically used Willmaker but added language to it, granted he didn't charge anywhere near $200, but still. It's simply a waste of money considering there are the exact same trust documents at the top of this forum for free.

What's even crazier is that the trusts created by Doug were kicked back by the ATF because they were missing information.........trusts created by Quicken Willmaker were fine.

We get it, an attorney made trust isn't required, and no one ever said it was. And these were not done by Doug King so none of the comments about him are relevant to this trust system.

Quote from Mark who used to own one of the largest silencer dealers in the nation, whole lot of good that $100 spent on an attorney created trust did. Just because you send some lawyer $200 who no one has ever dealt with before and decided to create a website does not mean your trust is good to go................a $10 software program is.

"To be clear...

If you used most popular software to create your Trust, you won't have this problem.

If you went to a local lawyer who was pretty well regarded for making NFA=specific Trusts, chances are you are missing this form.

Before you panic read your Trust (as you should anyway) and see what "Schedules" are mentioned in the document. The ATF will want to see all schedules mentioned in the document.

We've recently had several Trust transfers rejected for the issue described by the OP. All were created by a lawyer. We've had zero problems with any transfers to Trusts created by software like Willmaker. Just FYI.

Mark"

Just checked, mine has the necessary schedule attached.

I thought that was a pretty bold claim, one which wouldn't mean **** if the ATF decided to come after you. Combine that with the government can take your guns if you dont pay us $200 to create a trust is akin to a a shister lawyer chasing ambulances. Not to mention that they operate on a $20/referral business model. Sucker born every minute,

My god you are mad! The attorney is not a "shister lawyer," he is a good friend of mine and of the site's. He has done a lot of stuff for the site pro-bono. And what in the world is wrong with a referral system? Is there anything you don't have an issue with?

Sorry, but whether you like it or not, there are some people who WANT to pay a lawyer to do their trust for them, this post was for those people, that's it. I was one of those people before this came along. I've been wanting a trust but didn't want to do it myself and didn't want to pay an attorney $500 for one, so I just went without.

 

[roundhouse]

Timely article, out yesterday:

http://www.survivalblog.com/2013/06...21st-century-by-attorney-terry-e-hogwood.html