AR15 triggers

[Mrs_Esterhouse]

For Buddhs’s sake, it’s a ferking trigger. Probably 90% of us would be fine with mil-spec.
Next y’all will be critiquing wines.

 

[KDM2]

One of my mottos is “It’s the man that makes the craftsman, not his tools.”

Within reason, proper training will benefit more shooters than an upgraded trigger will. With that being said, once folks have reached a point in their training/skill level, they can exploit the difference that a “better” trigger gives them. I can run an AR with a Geissele SSA in it faster and more accurately than I can run that same AR with a USGI trigger.

Additionally, I don’t know why folks seem to have a “one or the other” approach. Why can’t an AR owner invest in a better trigger AND train properly? Upgrading their trigger doesn’t preclude them training with their new trigger.

Well I'm with you on that - but there is nuance here when we are looking at training, and how to achieve improved results over time: I think what I've seen in myself when I was a lot younger, and regret losing the training reps over: was an attempt to use gear to get ahead of my training level. Its the message that the marketer is sending a lot of times with their new items, think LVPO, or any wildcat cartridge. I'm not going to accuse anyone else here of doing that, just speaking from personal experience. And its not just triggers.. But here we are talking about triggers. A fine, clean breaking trigger [just SSA for example] will _cover up_ issues located really, in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. So, for me personally, a mix of dry fire and different types of centerfire, rimfire, clays shooting etc.- reveal what's being covered up by recoil, and what's being covered up by gear. Its the rotation, and being dedicated that produce results, for me. But again, I see better benefits just from training hard on cardio/running than a lot of things. My resting heart rate is lower, enter better rifle shooting. Now having a technological advantage does mean something. Again, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of an athlete in training, and speaking from personal experience only.

 

[cmshoot]

Well I'm with you on that - but there is nuance here when we are looking at training, and how to achieve improved results over time: I think what I've seen in myself when I was a lot younger, and regret losing the training reps over: was an attempt to use gear to get ahead of my training level. Its the message that the marketer is sending a lot of times with their new items, think LVPO, or any wildcat cartridge. I'm not going to accuse anyone else here of doing that, just speaking from personal experience. And its not just triggers.. But here we are talking about triggers. A fine, clean breaking trigger [just SSA for example] will _cover up_ issues located really, in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. So, for me personally, a mix of dry fire and different types of centerfire, rimfire, clays shooting etc.- reveal what's being covered up by recoil, and what's being covered up by gear. Its the rotation, and being dedicated that produce results, for me. But again, I see better benefits just from training hard on cardio/running than a lot of things. My resting heart rate is lower, enter better rifle shooting. Now having a technological advantage does mean something. Again, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of an athlete in training, and speaking from personal experience only.

Training is almost always the answer.

However, I don’t agree with the thought that having better gear will cover up deficiencies, at least not as a negative aspect.

If that is the gist of your argument, then we should all train with Hi-Points. Crappy triggers, and less reliable than most everything else. Nothing to cover up for the shooter, and you’ll learn how to run a gun and clear malfunctions.

Cardio will only get you so far. I’ve shot against Rob Leatham; there ain’t a thing that I couldn’t do involving legs where I wouldn’t literally run circles around that overweight, stubby-legged, SOB. However, his trigger control is second to none. When it comes to cardio, I’ll throw myself against Jerry Miculek any day of the week, but you couldn’t pay me enough to get in a gunfight with that old man.

I have students that I helped set up their first AR, and trained them with it. I almost always had them run a stock trigger and put their money elsewhere, until they got to a point in their skill level where I recommended a trigger upgrade. Introducing the better trigger at the appropriate point always resulted in gains in speed and accuracy.

Additionally, shooting is a mental discipline, not a physical one. You get someone where they’re confident in their skills with a stock trigger, then introduce a better feeling one, and you can see their confidence level increase.

In every sport, hobby, job, and skill there are various levels of equipment. The vast majority of the folks that are at the top of their field are running the best kit.

 

[ReservoirDawg10]

Well I'm with you on that - but there is nuance here when we are looking at training, and how to achieve improved results over time: I think what I've seen in myself when I was a lot younger, and regret losing the training reps over: was an attempt to use gear to get ahead of my training level. Its the message that the marketer is sending a lot of times with their new items, think LVPO, or any wildcat cartridge. I'm not going to accuse anyone else here of doing that, just speaking from personal experience. And its not just triggers.. But here we are talking about triggers. A fine, clean breaking trigger [just SSA for example] will _cover up_ issues located really, in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship. So, for me personally, a mix of dry fire and different types of centerfire, rimfire, clays shooting etc.- reveal what's being covered up by recoil, and what's being covered up by gear. Its the rotation, and being dedicated that produce results, for me. But again, I see better benefits just from training hard on cardio/running than a lot of things. My resting heart rate is lower, enter better rifle shooting. Now having a technological advantage does mean something. Again, I'm just looking at it from the perspective of an athlete in training, and speaking from personal experience only.

For the love of God, just stop. The question was about trigger upgrades. Nobody cares that you view yourself as an athlete. Nobody cares who is carrying what rifle platform in whatever ****hole country. No one cares what you think. Guns cover up your defincies with the broad sword, which covers up your deficiencies with your fists.

Bottom line is that if I can get shots on target first, whether or not deficiencies where covered up by gear, I win.

 

[titan2k10]

One could say that someone showed their ass if they suddenly changed their overall positive opinion to an overall negative due to a single comment they didn’t agree with.

I’m not peddling anything. I’m an Armorer that teaches other folks to be Armorers; I’m sharing a professionally held opinion, backed up by facts and research.

When it is equivalent to saying "I'm a liberal gun owner" then it's not that far fetched. Continue though.....

 

[Burning Love]

When it is equivalent to saying "I'm a liberal gun owner" then it's not that far fetched. Continue though.....

Damn, you seem like a ton of fun to hangout with.

 

[titan2k10]

Damn, you seem like a ton of fun to hangout with.

So me replying to someone replying to me saying that ALG ACT > LaRue MBT or ALG ACT = LaRue MBT is me being a "fun guy". Take that to any other firearms forum and get laughed out of town after being tarred and feathered for good reason....By the same logic any of the CL CHF barrels made in house by PSA are better than the barrels LaRue makes as well....

On a different note, always admired your portfolio!

 

[KDM2]

For the love of God, just stop. The question was about trigger upgrades. Nobody cares that you view yourself as an athlete. Nobody cares who is carrying what rifle platform in whatever ****hole country. No one cares what you think. Guns cover up your defincies with the broad sword, which covers up your deficiencies with your fists.

Bottom line is that if I can get shots on target first, whether or not deficiencies where covered up by gear, I win.

Take it easy Man - its just an internet chat on AR trigger upgrades. If you don't care what I think, don't read it and respond...I'm making the point that the best trigger counts on what you are trying to do with it, and how you train. Also that the market is filled with manufactures who _claim_ to to have the best solution, and tread carefully

 

[FrontSitePost]

So me replying to someone replying to me saying that ALG ACT > LaRue MBT or ALG ACT = LaRue MBT is me being a "fun guy". Take that to any other firearms forum and get laughed out of town after being tarred and feathered for good reason....By the same logic any of the CL CHF barrels made in house by PSA are better than the barrels LaRue makes as well....

On a different note, always admired your portfolio!

Larue mbt2s ****S bro. Ignore the poors

 

[KDM2]

Training is almost always the answer.

However, I don’t agree with the thought that having better gear will cover up deficiencies, at least not as a negative aspect.

If that is the gist of your argument, then we should all train with Hi-Points. Crappy triggers, and less reliable than most everything else. Nothing to cover up for the shooter, and you’ll learn how to run a gun and clear malfunctions.

Cardio will only get you so far. I’ve shot against Rob Leatham; there ain’t a thing that I couldn’t do involving legs where I wouldn’t literally run circles around that overweight, stubby-legged, SOB. However, his trigger control is second to none. When it comes to cardio, I’ll throw myself against Jerry Miculek any day of the week, but you couldn’t pay me enough to get in a gunfight with that old man.

I have students that I helped set up their first AR, and trained them with it. I almost always had them run a stock trigger and put their money elsewhere, until they got to a point in their skill level where I recommended a trigger upgrade. Introducing the better trigger at the appropriate point always resulted in gains in speed and accuracy.

Additionally, shooting is a mental discipline, not a physical one. You get someone where they’re confident in their skills with a stock trigger, then introduce a better feeling one, and you can see their confidence level increase.

In every sport, hobby, job, and skill there are various levels of equipment. The vast majority of the folks that are at the top of their field are running the best kit.

I appreciate the kind advice Sir. I think that I'm saying that as an intermediate shooter [I train perhaps twice a week for the past 20 years] Its difficult for me to clock what the best is yet for what I do, in some sports, so I return to the gear I started off on/is regarded as stock in my training routine. That said there's a floor on what is quality [ALG QMS MIL-SPEC]. But again, I'm a sport shooter not a combat shooter. Kyle Defoor here is arguing that you will be a better shooter with a red dot if you practice with Irons, for example: