Extension of BOS thread -- can you prove you own the guns you own?

[gh1950]

O.K. the little BOS FFL wannabes want a BOS to prove they sold the gun supposedly. The flip side is can they prove they owned the gun in first place?

I'll start this with what we used to call a "personal witness."

I had a pistol stolen from my car in front of my house. Yeah yeah yeah, I should have had the door locked, heard all about that from the significant other. But it was a very uncommon pistol, and I HAD THE BOX IT CAME IN from the FFL, brand new. Easy peasy. Gave that info to the LEO. Next day get a call from the detective that a gun "similar" to mine had shower up at the nearest pawn shop. Praise the Lord, Glory Hallelujah. But what with the "similar to mine" Well the last digit on the serial number was ONE digit off from the one on the box, so they (LEO) were putting a hold on it, but they could not pick it up.

Well, no problemo, we will just drive over to the FFL, pull out the 4473 and get the serial number of the gun sold to me, because they copy that from the gun, not the box. BIG PROBLEMO, in the meantime, LGS has lost their FFL, and all the 4473 go back to ATF, which apparently stores them in the same warehouse that the Ark is stored in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

Footnote: If you are all paranoid about ATF tracking you down through a 4473, get over it. They pretty much told me that unless I had used the gun to assassinate a president, there was no way they were going to locate the records and search through them, because they have to do it manually.

The LGS had to records to show that they had received 5 of these sort of unicorn guns, and freely admitted that the guns and boxes may have gotten mixed up.

Bottom line, I couldn't get the gun back because I couldn't PROVE it was my gun, and they wouldn't tell me who pawned it, because I wasn't above having a come to Jesus meeting, and they had to be local.


Anyway, I followed up on what my insurance company has been telling me for years which is to document what you owned. Even for personal property, take a picture of each room. In any event, I took my camera and took a picture of every gun I own, and making sure the serial number was clear, and any identifying marks.

Then I stored the copies on line, and on a disk I keep in a lock box. As I buy and sell, I just add to it.

So, can you prove you own the guns you claim to own at this moment. Even a hand written journal would be sufficient. But if you can't prove you had that specific gun in your hands at a specific time, it may cause you trouble.

In my case, and as a lesson to the BOS fanboys, I WISH the police had traced a gun used in a crime back to me.

 

[CZ Fan]

If it is in my possession, it's mine.

Can they prove it's someone else's?

 

[gh1950]

If it is in my possession, it's mine.

Can they prove it's someone else's?

Point being if it gets in someone else possession (or lost in a fire or such) whose is it?

 

[Peacekeeper]

My friend got a call one day about a Glock he owned, they wanted to know who he sold it to. He told them who bought it, he did not have a bill of sale, but we both knew the man real well. That Glock was used to kill a woman, just happened to be the wife of the man who bought the Glock. That man is now sitting in jail.

 

[CZ Fan]

Point being if it gets in someone else possession (or lost in a fire or such) whose is it?

Then it's gone.

 

[boxer90]

I have a spreadsheet that I use to keep up with purchases. Though I can only think of a few I've bought from a FFL that is no longer around, but I have others that have most likely been in private hands since before the NFA was signed into law. I'd say probably half of mine I'd have no problem getting FFL info on them if I needed it, the other half I'd be up dookie drive without a tire. However, when I sell anything, it's deleted from the spreadsheet entirely as if I never owned it. No sense in keeping irrelevant information. With regards to guns being used in crime down the road, well, that's why the State employs investigators. Unless they want to add me on the payroll, they can do their own investigating.

Imo, it gets interesting if you're like a buddy of mine who collects older .22 rifles. Many of them pre-68 lack serial numbers. He electro-pencils a serial number (his initials and a number) on the underside of the barrel so it's covered up by the stock. I've seen many older guns (especially GI bringbacks) where the owner would pencil in their Social Security number, but that wouldn't be too smart in today's society.

 

[StuP]

One thing that does make me wonder; if there's a paper trail to you for a gun used in a crime and you've no proof of sale, I assume you'd need to be prepared for some probing questioning if they've nothing else to go on.

 

[BIKER13]

what guns ?

 

[boxer90]

One thing that does make me wonder; if there's a paper trail to you for a gun used in a crime and you've no proof of sale, I assume you'd need to be prepared for some probing questioning if they've nothing else to go on.

Not necessarily. I remember a thread on here a while back about that guy who was busted for transporting guns between Atlanta and New York using airplanes. IIRC, a member on here was contacted about a gun he sold and it was a non-issue because he had sold it breaking no State or Federal laws.

Real life isn't CSI contrary to popular belief, and at least in this State we don't have a registry. The ATF also operates with a limited budget. I recall a story an LGS told me a few years ago where someone had committed a murder with a rifle and local PD was going around to regional stores seeing if one of them had sold the firearm. Don't know how much truth there was to that story, but it seems to me that there isn't some omnipotent system for tracking down a gun.

Plus, FFL's are only required to keep records for 25 (I believe) years, and there are many firearms that haven't been in the system in that time frame. Hell, how many firearms are out there that were sold by a commercial outlet prior to the 1968 Gun Control Act? You can't track those guns.

 

[YOTESHOOTER]

If the seller and buyer agree to BOS, great if not walk on and forget it...

Like others not going to give all my info, to someone who we have only met that day, unless it is a firearms store...