Honestly, I found my accuracy much better with the VP9, and I like the trigger better on VP9. The trigger on the PPQ kind of pinched my finger. Call it operator error or whatever, but for the $50 difference in price, I'll go with the one I liked better. Also, GA Firing Line had a Sig P320 which I shot. Not even in the same conversation with the other two - far and away better with both the PPQ and VP9.
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Heckler and Koch vp9
- Thread starter sovietak474u
- Start date
No argument here on that! Everyone should shoot what works for them, not what works for internet discussion forum junkies or gun rag writers!
From what I understand the VP9 has a more pronounced release and reset. I know a lot of folks prefer that. I have not shot it yet, but look forward to trying one out.
I'm really not surprised by this at all. The longer I've owned my PPQ, the more I've come to appreciate it. But these two are comparable in many ways and it will really come down to personal preference. You can't lose really. It's late and I'm typing from my phone, so I'll keep my observations brief. (I obviously failed miserably - comparing three guns takes some time)
Comparison of the VP9, PPQ and M&P9
Size- all three are very similar, with minor differences in height, width and length. Nothing really stands out from this perspective. Others may obsess over minutia in this regard, but not me.
Controls - slide stop
VP9 - hk made an obvious departure from the P30 design here, which I presume is due to the large slide stop causing a failure to lock for some shooters. Initially, the VP9 controls feel almost too slim or low profile. However, in use, they are completely functional.
PPQ - easily manipulated, but I had to adjust my grip, placing my strong hand thumb over the weak hand thumb to avoid inadvertently holding the slide stop down during firing. Thumbs forward grip is a no go for alot of users.
M&P - just about perfect in my book. I can grip thumbs forward with no issues. Also allows easy, natural operation with the weak hand thumb during reloads. Protrudes enough to get a good purchase on the lever, while not being obtrusive.
Recoil / muzzle flip - Ranked best to worst
M&P - very soft shooting with a quick recovery
VP9 - slightly more flip, but overall is smooth & relatively mild
PPQ - initially feels stronger than you would expect a 9mm to be. But the muzzle tracks well and drops right back onto target. This is an overblown complaint about the PPQ in my opinion.
Accuracy -
PPQ and VP9 were essentially even, both are very accurate when the shooter does their part. Holes in holes is the norm at 7 yards.
M&P - has always been accurate enough, but it's not as mechanically accurate as the others for me.
Trigger - OK, this is where these three really differ and this subject is probably worth a separate post of its own to discuss all of the aspects of the trigger pull for each pistol. I'll keep this brief and these are not in any particular order.
VP9 - compared to the PPQ and the Apex FSS in my M&P, the vp9 trigger is substantially heavier. Until I get more time on it, I'm reserving judgement. What I can say is, setting pull weight aside, the cycle from start to finish is better than the PPQ, taking the feel into consideration. It's just smoother. Shorter take up, clean break, reasonable over travel and a positive reset. However, due to the pull weight, I really had to focus on fundamentals to prevent jerking rounds off target. Probably something that I can get acclimated to, but the lighter weight of the PPQ and FSS triggers have me a bit spoiled at the moment. Today's experience wasn't definitive and I'll be putting a lot more rounds through the VP9 in order to get a better assessment.
PPQ - the PPQ has what I believe is hands down the best break of any factory striker fired pistol currently in production. The rub with the PPQ trigger is that it has a rather long take up. This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if it was nice and smooth, but you can feel the trigger bar as it deactivates the firing pin block. It has a couple of minor bumps in the take up that give the impression of being gritty. As the pistol breaks in, it smooths out, but it's there. After take up, it's a crisp, light break and super short reset. For me, the lighter weight and crisp break help me be more accurate. And the PPQ is one seriously accurate handgun.
M&P with Apex FSS - Have you ever shot a really nice 1911 with a pull weight that was heavy enough for reliable carry, but light enough to feel like a custom gun? Well, that's the FSS in a nutshell. It's just that good. The one knock against the M&P is that they all have an anemic reset and the FSS can't fix that. However, the reset is shortened versus the standard M&P trigger, so it sort of becomes a non-issue. Super short take up, crisp break and short reset. It's awesome. At the same time, it's probably not a fair comparison either, since it's an aftermarket upgrade. The stock M&P trigger would rank dead last compared to the VP9 and PPQ.
I'll add this thought, I believe alot of the talk (and some hype) about the VP9 is coming from one of two different camps. The first group has likely been dedicated to the Glock, M&P or comparable striker fired handgun and maybe even a quality DA/SA pistol. For these types of buyers, the VP9 will be very impressive and they will sing it's praises, because it is better in many ways than what alot of shooters are used to. The second group are the hard-core HK fans and Kool Aid drinkers that will sing it's praises mainly because it's an Hk. But in this case, it's also because it's a very good gun.
For someone whose had time on a PPQ, and can remain objective, the choice between those two guns is not so clear cut. The Walther is not as widely accepted, in spite of it being one of the absolute best handguns in its class since it's introduction a couple of years ago. I'm not sure why this is the case, except that Walther just doesn't enjoy the same reputation here in the States that it does in Europe, where it's seen wider use with law enforcement. Bottom line is that the HK will have better aftermarket support and as a result, will likely surpass the PPQ in popularity rather quickly. However, I think that both are great guns and what you prefer is a personal choice. For me, this one falls into the "there's just something about an HK" category. I've previously owned a couple of USP compacts and they're one of the few guns that I've always regretted selling. Being able to get one that's striker fired, is an excellent all around gun and selling for a very competitive price, meant that I was going to have to get one. On the other hand, it wasn't a life changer for me. And I certainly wouldn't tell someone considering the VP9 vs the PPQ to just go buy the HK. I'd say, get some trigger time on each one and let your speed, accuracy and personal preferences tell you where to spend your money.
PS - sorry for any typos, as I've probably fat fingered a few while typing this ridiculously long post on my phone. I thought I said I was going to keep this short? Oops.
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No kidding! I intended to keep it short, but I knew that would just invite a plethora of questions. I hope it helps some folks get a more unbiased opinion though. If people believed everything that's been said about the VP9 elsewhere, they might buy the gun expecting it to be a 15 round rapture experience. I get tired of the "best" commentary, as I think people should think for themselves, just go shoot the gun and make up their own minds sometimes. I had to perform a serious reality check with myself this time, as I almost bought into the hype without ever having laid eyes on the gun. That's a personal rule that I rarely break and I really have to thank cwgibson for that. He and I have talked offline about the PPQ vs VP9 and he made me stop and look before I leaped. At this point, I'll be keeping both guns, as I appreciate them both for what they are. I'm looking forward to spending some more time on the VP9 to see what it can really do. Only got about 100 rounds through it today. I'm hoping to get another 400-500 in the next week or so.
Nice write-up! I really liked the PPQ trigger but wasn't as crazy over it as everyone else seems to be. I'm not really a trigger snob I guess. The one thing that really bothered me about the PPQ were the sites. The rear site is intentionally very wide for fast target acquisition. As a result, I just wasn't as accurate with it as some of my others. My father-in-law really liked it so I traded him my PPQ for a second P30. How are the sites on the VP9 in comparison to the PPQ? I'm an admitted HK fanboy so I'll pick one up just because it's HK and the price point is the same as the PPQ and almost a Glock. At then end of the day I agree with you though, get which one you feel most comfortable with. Or better yet, as you did, get both!
I quickly ditched the factory PPQ sights and swapped them out for a set from Dawson Precision with a thinner rear notch. The sights on the VP9 are the exact same as the P30. They're a bit chunky to me, but they'll be swapped out in exchange for a pair of real night sights anyway. Preferably a set of Heinie Straight Eights.
One more thought on this, my only real knock against the HK at this point is the heavier pull weight. It's completely serviceable and probably more appropriate for the majority of shooters, especially LE. If HK offered a reduced power spring kit to drop the pull weight by approximately 1-1.5 lbs, it could be definitively the best gun on the market.
I'm really not surprised by this at all. The longer I've owned my PPQ, the more I've come to appreciate it. But these two are comparable in many ways and it will really come down to personal preference. You can't lose really. It's late and I'm typing from my phone, so I'll keep my observations brief. (I obviously failed miserably - comparing three guns takes some time)
Comparison of the VP9, PPQ and M&P9
Size- all three are very similar, with minor differences in height, width and length. Nothing really stands out from this perspective. Others may obsess over minutia in this regard, but not me.
Controls - slide stop
VP9 - hk made an obvious departure from the P30 design here, which I presume is due to the large slide stop causing a failure to lock for some shooters. Initially, the VP9 controls feel almost too slim or low profile. However, in use, they are completely functional.
PPQ - easily manipulated, but I had to adjust my grip, placing my strong hand thumb over the weak hand thumb to avoid inadvertently holding the slide stop down during firing. Thumbs forward grip is a no go for alot of users.
M&P - just about perfect in my book. I can grip thumbs forward with no issues. Also allows easy, natural operation with the weak hand thumb during reloads. Protrudes enough to get a good purchase on the lever, while not being obtrusive.
Recoil / muzzle flip - Ranked best to worst
M&P - very soft shooting with a quick recovery
VP9 - slightly more flip, but overall is smooth & relatively mild
PPQ - initially feels stronger than you would expect a 9mm to be. But the muzzle tracks well and drops right back onto target. This is an overblown complaint about the PPQ in my opinion.
Accuracy -
PPQ and VP9 were essentially even, both are very accurate when the shooter does their part. Holes in holes is the norm at 7 yards.
M&P - has always been accurate enough, but it's not as mechanically accurate as the others for me.
Trigger - OK, this is where these three really differ and this subject is probably worth a separate post of its own to discuss all of the aspects of the trigger pull for each pistol. I'll keep this brief and these are not in any particular order.
VP9 - compared to the PPQ and the Apex FSS in my M&P, the vp9 trigger is substantially heavier. Until I get more time on it, I'm reserving judgement. What I can say is, setting pull weight aside, the cycle from start to finish is better than the PPQ, taking the feel into consideration. It's just smoother. Shorter take up, clean break, reasonable over travel and a positive reset. However, due to the pull weight, I really had to focus on fundamentals to prevent jerking rounds off target. Probably something that I can get acclimated to, but the lighter weight of the PPQ and FSS triggers have me a bit spoiled at the moment. Today's experience wasn't definitive and I'll be putting a lot more rounds through the VP9 in order to get a better assessment.
PPQ - the PPQ has what I believe is hands down the best break of any factory striker fired pistol currently in production. The rub with the PPQ trigger is that it has a rather long take up. This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing if it was nice and smooth, but you can feel the trigger bar as it deactivates the firing pin block. It has a couple of minor bumps in the take up that give the impression of being gritty. As the pistol breaks in, it smooths out, but it's there. After take up, it's a crisp, light break and super short reset. For me, the lighter weight and crisp break help me be more accurate. And the PPQ is one seriously accurate handgun.
M&P with Apex FSS - Have you ever shot a really nice 1911 with a pull weight that was heavy enough for reliable carry, but light enough to feel like a custom gun? Well, that's the FSS in a nutshell. It's just that good. The one knock against the M&P is that they all have an anemic reset and the FSS can't fix that. However, the reset is shortened versus the standard M&P trigger, so it sort of becomes a non-issue. Super short take up, crisp break and short reset. It's awesome. At the same time, it's probably not a fair comparison either, since it's an aftermarket upgrade. The stock M&P trigger would rank dead last compared to the VP9 and PPQ.
I'll add this thought, I believe alot of the talk (and some hype) about the VP9 is coming from one of two different camps. The first group has likely been dedicated to the Glock, M&P or comparable striker fired handgun and maybe even a quality DA/SA pistol. For these types of buyers, the VP9 will be very impressive and they will sing it's praises, because it is better in many ways than what alot of shooters are used to. The second group are the hard-core HK fans and Kool Aid drinkers that will sing it's praises mainly because it's an Hk. But in this case, it's also because it's a very good gun.
For someone whose had time on a PPQ, and can remain objective, the choice between those two guns is not so clear cut. The Walther is not as widely accepted, in spite of it being one of the absolute best handguns in its class since it's introduction a couple of years ago. I'm not sure why this is the case, except that Walther just doesn't enjoy the same reputation here in the States that it does in Europe, where it's seen wider use with law enforcement. Bottom line is that the HK will have better aftermarket support and as a result, will likely surpass the PPQ in popularity rather quickly. However, I think that both are great guns and what you prefer is a personal choice. For me, this one falls into the "there's just something about an HK" category. I've previously owned a couple of USP compacts and they're one of the few guns that I've always regretted selling. Being able to get one that's striker fired, is an excellent all around gun and selling for a very competitive price, meant that I was going to have to get one. On the other hand, it wasn't a life changer for me. And I certainly wouldn't tell someone considering the VP9 vs the PPQ to just go buy the HK. I'd say, get some trigger time on each one and let your speed, accuracy and personal preferences tell you where to spend your money.
PS - sorry for any typos, as I've probably fat fingered a few while typing this ridiculously long post on my phone. I thought I said I was going to keep this short? Oops.
that literally explains everything
Yeah, I hope that's a good thing though!
