New laws, anyone?

[summer44]

I have never said do this without due process. However, part of that due process is taking a person out of society to remove a potential danger. We do this all the time with criminals. They are arrested and then get their day in court at some time in the future. If they are deemed to be a real threat, they are denied bond.

We also already institutionalize people that have a mental health issue that could cause them to be a danger to others, but the standards being used to do that are ridiculously inadequate. All you have to do is look at the known history of most of these shooters to understand that. People knew they were bat **** and dangerous and no one did anything about it.

I'm not actually talking about doing something new here. I'm talking about going back to a day when a person that was obviously nuts got institutionalized. That was probably done to much then, but the pendulum has swung to far the other way and people that should not be on the streets still are... and they are killing people.

I agree with you on all that, I missed or overlooked where you said due process.

 

[Eastwood]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet or not: https://news.yahoo.com/classmates-ohio-shooter-kept-hit-033305480.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

If it’s true that he had these lists of people he wanted to harm and this was known by law enforcement (if not known by law enforcement they should have been made aware immediately), this should have been on his record to prevent him from passing any current background check that is already in place when purchasing a gun. According to the article he was suspended from school because of it and then allowed to come back, not okay. Also not okay if none of this was reported on his permanent record. Sounds like a failure of enforcing the current system in place, which does not justify adding stricter laws on the rest of us. Don’t create more laws if you can’t properly enforce the ones you already have

 

[Bear44]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet or not: https://news.yahoo.com/classmates-ohio-shooter-kept-hit-033305480.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

If it’s true that he had these lists of people he wanted to harm and this was known by law enforcement (if not known by law enforcement they should have been made aware immediately), this should have been on his record to prevent him from passing any current background check that is already in place when purchasing a gun. According to the article he was suspended from school because of it and then allowed to come back, not okay. Also not okay if none of this was reported on his permanent record. Sounds like a failure of enforcing the current system in place, which does not justify adding stricter laws on the rest of us. Don’t create more laws if you can’t properly enforce the ones you already have

What laws did he break by making those lists?

 

[Spas-12 Owner]

It’s clear we have a metal Heath crisis in our country. The mass shootings, the record number of people using prescription drugs for depression and anxiety, the record number of people with gender dysphoria, significant rises in suicide and drug addictions. These are all symptoms of the very same complex problem. I don’t have all the answers on how to fix this, but I think going back to a day and time when counselors were men and woman of faith, where children had dinner with both parents, when kids played outside and not on a device, when more people went to church. When we ate food that mom made instead of out of box, can or a bag.

I’m not sure any laws can change these things, this is a problem of the people and by the people. We are becoming an increasingly weak, fragile and an unkind population. We look inward more instead of looking outward for others.

I think mental health professionals, doctors and drug companies have helped create our current crisis, I sure as hell don’t want these same people deciding who can and who cant get a gun. They have caused enough problems and they clearly aren’t helping; the problems are only getting worse. Our medical mental health services have replaced communities, churches, friends, neighbors and families in the lives of too many poeple. We used to look to our community, church, friends and family for help no we look to a bottle of pills or body altering surgery.

As to red flag laws....we have this little thing called due process. We can’t take away individual rights because we think there might be a problem some day in the future. What if they they pose this same solution to prevent sexual crimes?

Freedom caries risk, the too concepts are inseparable. If we have total freedom, we also have the risk of getting seriously ill, or going broke or dying when we make mad choices. We can be free or we can be free from risk, but we can’t be be both.

The answers to these complex issues will not be found in government, they will be found in God, in you and in me. They are found in hard work, love, kindness, meekness, and humility. They are found in caring for our neighbors, they are found in dedication to God, Country and Family.

-Amen

The first step is to get them off the streets, then we can try to address the causes.

-Take the Freedom first, Then DUE process.. Got it.

Anything that strips people of their liberty afforded by the US Constitution is tyrannical.

- Yes

Due process has been stated in all posts here,by Bear and myself. YOU are the one assuming lack of due process would be acceptable to us.

- Actually Bear has stated He wants due process, then He keeps digging deeper and deeper into no due process, Note his quote above, At least that is how I understand what he says.

Red Flags already in place can and should actually be used, However they are very loosly written that any one with minor knowledge of what to say and what not can get out of a "Baker Act" or current "Red Flag" law. The Gov already abuses SO many other laws written that more will not help nor change these mass shootings.

Personally We need to look at Big Drug companies and what those pills actually due to a person. I know from personal experience that Zolft will make you feel non human and stop your mind from having complete thoughts. Before more laws infringing on the 2nd get passed, We need to look at what the majority of mass shooters that have in common other then a gun.

I got news for you, You ban a constitutional protected right then We will see more bombings from IED's in this county. Those wanting to do harm, Will not stop until they do, The tool used is irrelevant.

 

[summer44]

Show me where the Constitution says it's illegal to murder.

that my point it doesnt say its illegal, but it does not say you have a right do so either, the Contitution doesn't read anywhere that something is illegal, it spells out what rights the goverment can't take.

 

[Glorfindel]

I have never said do this without due process. However, part of that due process is taking a person out of society to remove a potential danger. We do this all the time with criminals. They are arrested and then get their day in court at some time in the future. If they are deemed to be a real threat, they are denied bond.

We also already institutionalize people that have a mental health issue that could cause them to be a danger to others, but the standards being used to do that are ridiculously inadequate. All you have to do is look at the known history of most of these shooters to understand that. People knew they were bat **** and dangerous and no one did anything about it.

I'm not actually talking about doing something new here. I'm talking about going back to a day when a person that was obviously nuts got institutionalized. That was probably done to much then, but the pendulum has swung to far the other way and people that should not be on the streets still are... and they are killing people.

It would just be easier to turn all our guns in.

 

[summer44]

What laws did he break by making those lists?

terroristic threats

 

[Bear44]

-Amen



-Take the Freedom first, Then DUE process.. Got it.

- Yes


- Actually Bear has stated He wants due process, then He keeps digging deeper and deeper into no due process, Note his quote above, At least that is how I understand what he says.

Red Flags already in place can and should actually be used, However they are very loosly written that any one with minor knowledge of what to say and what not can get out of a "Baker Act" or current "Red Flag" law. The Gov already abuses SO many other laws written that more will not help nor change these mass shootings.

Personally We need to look at Big Drug companies and what those pills actually due to a person. I know from personal experience that Zolft will make you feel non human and stop your mind from having complete thoughts. Before more laws infringing on the 2nd get passed, We need to look at what the majority of mass shooters that have in common other then a gun.

I got news for you, You ban a constitutional protected right then We will see more bombings from IED's in this county. Those wanting to do harm, Will not stop until they do, The tool used is irrelevant.

Try reading the entire post and you will see my quote you used is not what you are presenting it as. I am all for due process, but that does not mean an obviously dangerous criminal or crazy person maintains their freedom until the get their day in court. It never has meant that.

 

[BIKER13]

Not sure if anyone posted this yet or not: https://news.yahoo.com/classmates-ohio-shooter-kept-hit-033305480.html?.tsrc=daily_mail&uh_test=1_02

If it’s true that he had these lists of people he wanted to harm and this was known by law enforcement (if not known by law enforcement they should have been made aware immediately), this should have been on his record to prevent him from passing any current background check that is already in place when purchasing a gun. According to the article he was suspended from school because of it and then allowed to come back, not okay. Also not okay if none of this was reported on his permanent record. Sounds like a failure of enforcing the current system in place, which does not justify adding stricter laws on the rest of us. Don’t create more laws if you can’t properly enforce the ones you already have

but if you enforce laws you are a meany and depriving the perp of his rights and feels

 

[summer44]

Try reading the entire post and you will see my quote you used is not what you are presenting it as. I am all for due process, but that does not mean an obviously dangerous criminal or crazy person maintains their freedom until the get their day in court. It never has meant that.

true but when arrested without a warrent, you must be given a court hearing in 72 hours, I don't know if that would be the case if you are arresting someone for being a nut job