So the AK-47 is pre-historic and outdated for battle?

[Spas-12 Owner]

AR-180

 

[webicknell]

This was a great education.... Thank you.... And yes I still want my VEPR in 7.62x54r...

AR is reliable, if it is cared for properly. AK is not jam proof, but it will take more neglect than AR.
AR is a more accurate than a run of the mill AK you can buy in the States.

For most people in the US, AK means a parts gun. I grew up shooting military issue AK74s and RPK74s (other side of the Iron Curtain). They are VERY accurate, especially RPK74 in semi-auto mode (RPK74 has a longer, heavier barrel and a thicker receiver).
If you shoot a Russian-made Vepr or Saiga, or Bulgarian Arsenal you will see the difference from the regular parts guns.

BTW, most of the AK47 variants sold in US are really AKMs, not AK47s. AK47 had a milled receiver. Russians found out that milled receiver could not handle full-auto as well as a stamped receiver. AKM (Avtomat Kalasknikova Modernizovannyi) is AK47 with stamped receiver. There are couple of other minor differences, but basically, that's it.

As far as ARs and Russian and Chinese forces. All the pics I have seen in US media show Special Forces with those guns. Pics in this thread with Chinese and ARs were taken during the international Special forces competition (Google it). Same as in US, Special Forces have more freedom in choosing their weapons.

Russia does not issue Glocks to its regular troops, but the market is big enough in MVD, FSB and VSR for Glock to subcontract final assembly to Kalashnikov concern in Izhevsk (IzhMash).

AK12 was to replace AK74 for the front-line units. It uses AK74's piston system, but allows field-changeable barrels, among other things. It did not fare well in the trials, so its future is uncertain. Abakan AN94 is a better gun than AK74 or AK12, but Russian internal politics squelched the project. IzhMash is a 1000 pound gorilla in the room and they do not like competition.

As far as shooting at 300 yards....Neither 5.56 nor 7.62x39 nor 5.45x39 are good choices. 5.56 looses too much velocity at that range, especially when fired from an M4, same with the other two calibers. Russian military doctrine and US doctrine are different. For every 10 AK74 (IIRC) you had one SVD in 7.62x54R (ballistically between 7.62 NATO and 30-06 Springfield). That took care of anything beyond 200 meters. Then you add in RPK74 in 5.45x39 and PK or Goryunov in 7.62x54R, and your covered there as well.

After fights in Chechnya, some Spetsnaz units started going back to 7.62x39 (AK100 series). 5.45x39 lacks ability to penetrate heavy cover, same as 5.56 NATO.

5.45x39 is a great round, but it is not manufactured domestically, so are 100% reliant on imports. 7.62x39 is made by Winchester and Remington, IIRC, so you have domestic options. That made my choice.

Pick whatever floats your boat.

 

[Jaymz736]

Ak is a great rifle as is the ar

 

[Wolf six]

Anyone selling an AK i'm still in need of one

 

[Hammerhead636]

AR-180

AR-180 should have been the military's weapon. But timing screwed the pooch (by a couple months i hear too)

 

[Flammenwerfer]

Someone sell me their unwanted, inaccurate and unreliable AK-74 or AK-47. It's clear you should go buy yourself a Stoner rifle.....

 

[2001SportTJ]

Well, this thread went just as I suspected. CCW and NWS going back and forth like an old married couple and neither one agrees with the other still. Would you two just **** and get it over with?

 

[TacticalTaco]

Will there be an adequate amount of tactical webb gear on hand for when you guys are seeing who is the deadliest warriorz?

 

[Axios!]

Just a quick note for Jeddak: Hornady is making a nice 5.45 load with the SST bullet. It's not completely domestic, as the cases are imported. But that said, I'm sure Hornady would tool up for production if 5.45 surplus and commercial for some reason dried up. When there's money to be made, someone will decide to make it.

 

[TacticalTaco]

I would also like to know how, " The Russians are kicking ass with it" has anything to do with the AK-47 platforms performance. Probably has nothing to do with the fact they overproduced them up until the 1990's and are now stuck with more AK's than STD's. (This just in, Russia hasn't kicked anyone's ass recently).

We could also look at Georgia, Poland, and other former Warsaw Pact states turning to more modern designs.