Wife wants a .22 Mag Revolver

[Wheeler]

No, I am just agreeing with the advice of generations of Instructors who've proceeded me.
The one who has covered this topic specifically at length is of course Mas Ayoob.

I don't think we're disagreeing as much as you may think.

In many cases the simple appearance of a gun may make the antagonist run off which is a win. However as you noted there are many examples where .22's have acquitted themselves well. There are also less publicized examples that Ayoob has quoted where people shot with them eventually made their way to the hospital for treatment & in some cases were unaware that they were even shot at all.

I never said anything about killing a threat. I always refer to stopping them as quickly as possible.

I agree with you that one advantage of .22's is their accuracy potential.

One issue is that troubles me is that many less committed shooters that default to the .22 are lacking the mindset needed to use any gun at all.

For those examples I mentioned earlier who just could not handle/ operate anything larger we practiced emptying the mag. into one or two targets, quickly reloading, & learning how to clear malfunctions.
We settled on CCI Velocitor (mini- GoldDots) & I strongly encouraged them to practice regularly & keep the gun immaculately clean.

At the end of the day I am reminded of the wisdom of Cooper when he suggested for shooters to carry the largest caliber that they will carry & can hit (their target) with....

Very smart guy.

I stand corrected on those points. I agree that folks should run the biggest caliber they can handle up to a point. Once we step in the realm of service calibers the terminal performance is so close (with modern, quality defensive ammunition) so as to not really matter.

When Cooper made that statement the only real options were .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm ball and .45ACP ball.

 

[Pugdad]

We also put about 100 rounds through the kel-tec pmr 30 without any issues but it is a little big for concealed carry. It will be used for home defense for her...30 rounds of 22 mag should get the job done.

I too have a PMR and the wife gets along with it ok but too large for her small hands (5' tall and 100 lbs) Also have a CMR and she likes the 22 Mag round!

 

[protective measures]

I stand corrected on those points. I agree that folks should run the biggest caliber they can handle up to a point. Once we step in the realm of service calibers the terminal performance is so close (with modern, quality defensive ammunition) so as to not really matter.

When Cooper made that statement the only real options were .38 Special, .357 Magnum, 9mm ball and .45ACP ball.

Agreed. It is a very tough challenge that unfortunately I face regularly.... mostly w/ female shooters.
Especially the ones who are dragged out to shoot by their significant others.... sometimes w/ an attitude.

Over the years I have found a way to "cheat" or "deceive" them into having a more appropriate mindset.

I've found on countless occasions that if you can de-emphasize the "tactical" stuff & provide an environment where they truly learn to have fun shooting that at some point they get a little bored w/ the li'l old .22 & voluntarily want to try something bigger.

Many times I've had the husband/ male influence "warn" me that their female companion hated shooting & had only come out to appease them.

One time in particular this very well-to-do lady pulled me aside when her husband took a bathroom break right before class & told me that she DID NOT want to be there & dreaded it but we would just have to get through it..... I thanked her for her honesty.

She slowly but gradually warmed up once she started shooting both the Ruger LCR .22 & the S&W M&P 22c.
After one of the drills later in the day where she emptied the mag. into the metal target rapid-fire, she muttered under her breath, Yeah... I shot that *** didn't I? Her husband & I went....

For just a minute the whole affluent, sophisticated façade was replaced by the little redneck girl who was having fun.
She eventually graduated to being able to shoot both her .38 snubbie & her husbands G-19 competently.

I'm sure other Instructors have had similar experiences.

I would encourage those of you who take the time to introduce females to the shooting world to find / make available to them "trainer" .22's that are simple but reliable (& preferably work like larger centerfire guns) so that they can safely get comfortable operating it & having fun before handing them a Glock 27 or 12 ga. pump & scaring them so much that they won't want to come shoot again.

 

[greg vess]

I am not trying to sway your decision one way or the other. It may sound like it. My point is there is a fun day at the range and personal defense and one shouldn't dictate the other in some cases. If you carry a compact 1911 then you can go to the range and shoot it for practice and joy. If the gun feels good then that's ok. However going to the range and you enjoy shooting a small caliber gun for kicks that alone shouldn't dictate what your self defense weapon should be. The ideal situation would be by a gun that has a frame in 22 mag and then one in a little larger caliber. Let her familiarize herself and enjoy that gun on the range. Then let her carry the larger caliber gun for effect. Like I said before. In a stressful situation when you absolutely have to draw down on a bad guy recoil is going to be the last thing she will be thinking about. The world stops right there and there is only that fight for flight mindset. When you squeeze off a few rounds you want to know that if it hits the torso that the target is going to stop and flee or drop. The absolute minimum I would want to deal with there would be a hollow point +p 380 with the polymer insert for functionality. Better yet the 327 mag.

 

[greg vess]

Look into the Walther P series guns.

 

[biker_bill]

I would encourage those of you who take the time to introduce females to the shooting world to find / make available to them "trainer" .22's that are simple but reliable (& preferably work like larger centerfire guns) so that they can safely get comfortable operating it & having fun before handing them a Glock 27 or 12 ga. pump & scaring them so much that they won't want to come shoot again.

I see it at the range all the time.
It's like some guys have to show their wives how macho they are by handing her a gun she's not ready to shoot. I hate it and since I consider it a safety issue and safety is my job, I speak up. I'm thinking I should just keep a .22 and some ammo with me so I can say "Try this"...... Usually I just pull the member aside and ask him what the hell he's doing. Sometimes it's like they honestly never gave it a thought ....

 

[Wheeler]

Agreed. It is a very tough challenge that unfortunately I face regularly.... mostly w/ female shooters.
Especially the ones who are dragged out to shoot by their significant others.... sometimes w/ an attitude.

Over the years I have found a way to "cheat" or "deceive" them into having a more appropriate mindset.

I've found on countless occasions that if you can de-emphasize the "tactical" stuff & provide an environment where they truly learn to have fun shooting that at some point they get a little bored w/ the li'l old .22 & voluntarily want to try something bigger.

Many times I've had the husband/ male influence "warn" me that their female companion hated shooting & had only come out to appease them.

One time in particular this very well-to-do lady pulled me aside when her husband took a bathroom break right before class & told me that she DID NOT want to be there & dreaded it but we would just have to get through it..... I thanked her for her honesty.

She slowly but gradually warmed up once she started shooting both the Ruger LCR .22 & the S&W M&P 22c.
After one of the drills later in the day where she emptied the mag. into the metal target rapid-fire, she muttered under her breath, Yeah... I shot that *** didn't I? Her husband & I went....

For just a minute the whole affluent, sophisticated façade was replaced by the little redneck girl who was having fun.
She eventually graduated to being able to shoot both her .38 snubbie & her husbands G-19 competently.

I'm sure other Instructors have had similar experiences.

I would encourage those of you who take the time to introduce females to the shooting world to find / make available to them "trainer" .22's that are simple but reliable (& preferably work like larger centerfire guns) so that they can safely get comfortable operating it & having fun before handing them a Glock 27 or 12 ga. pump & scaring them so much that they won't want to come shoot again.

I've been involved in a .22 Steel Challenge with my son for about three years now. This year we've gone the NSSF route and stepped up the level of the match just a tad.

It's a great venue for new shooters, especially women and kids who don't have an ego or a head full of preconceived notions and bad ideas to get started in shooting the right way.

Anything that can get folks interested is a good thing to me.

 

[spencer60]

One thing that's being missed in a few of these posts is that we are talking about 22 magnum, not 22LR.

A 22LR is fine for squirrels and racoons, but a 22 mag will take out a coyote very nicely, and a friend who guides on alligator hunts uses them to finish off any that are too lively to take on board the boat.

It's not a perfect caliber for self-defense, but then again 38 Specials don't have a particularly great reputation either (just read some of Jim Cirillo's stories or the woman Monte was discussing above) .

It is a reasonable caliber though. I would argue that a person closing their eyes and flinching just to shoot a gun that is over-caliber for them is far worse than someone steadily and accurately shooting (and getting hits) with an smaller caliber gun.

 

[FrogHunter]

If someone is more comfortable/accurate shooting a 22 mag or 22lr than a larger caliber that's what works for them. I don't care what some of the keyboard commandos say, if you shoot me with a 22 mag or 22lr in the torso anywhere...... I'm done messing with you.

 

[greg vess]

All I am saying is there are a lot of meth heads out there and a 22 mag is not likely to stop one. If that's going to be her choice then so be it. All I can say is take a training course where they apply stress while operating the weapon. I think the strike percentage of police involved shootings is 30 percent hit rate. Now these guys train all the time. Moral of the story is train, train, train and keep training. Use silhouette targets and get very good at head shots. Remember that trained officers hit their targets about 30 percent of the time ball park. It's less than that when the perps are returning fire. My take on the subject is, given all the things fighting against you in a situation right off the bat a adequate caliber would be nice if you happen to get a hit at all.
On the other hand my best friend went out an bought his wife a 4 inch .45 acp Kimber 1911 carry type. The damn thing jumped so much it was virtually impossible for her to get of a second shot effectively. This subject can go either way and be argued for decades. The only point I am trying to make is you can go to small and you go to big. The trick is finding that one caliber and gun ( which makes a difference on how the gun will respond when fired ) that's large enough to be effective but not to large that it invokes a jerk response before it's fired.
If the 22 mag is her final choice just get training and get real good shooting with a timer to build up a tolerance for stress. That way a disabling shot can be obtained quick without spraying and praying.
I just feel that what she likes to shoot at the range shouldn't be the only reason she arms herself with that caliber. We are looking a two very different and possibly life saving situations. One being knocking over a beer can and the other saving your wives and kids lives. Explain that to her and then let her make her decision.