Does Concealed Gun Give Cops Right to Search You?

[wozbean]

Every time you say "papers please" I, and I am sure every one else here, knows what game you are playing and who you are trying to bring to mind. As a result, your arguments and every post you make are just trash. Keep playing that game, your words are instantly meaningless as long as you do.

Should I go back and edit them all to "GWL Please", "firearms permit please" etc etc. It still changes nothing. When you initiate an unlawful search without reasonable suspicion the LEO is overstepping the law.

- EDIT. I thought about it some more and the term "papers please" is actually totally correct. All 3 of these things are the same.
1. seeing a firearm print and asking for the permit
2. seeing a hispanic and asking to see a green card
3. seeing a muslim in loose clothing and frisking them for weapons/explosives
All are unlawful without RS or PC

 

[js415]

I attended a town hall meeting as a GCO representative about 6 months ago, along with Sheriff Mike Yeager, and the Executive Director of GCO.

This meeting was to provide a "question and answer" session to the Coweta County chapter of the Tea Party, concerning firearms laws, rights, Licensing, etc.

During part of this meeting, the subject of carrying a firearm was brought up. Sheriff Yeager made the statement, "if I see a guy walking down the street carrying a firearm, and I have no reason to believe that he is about to commit a crime, or has committed a crime, I have no reason to stop him and demand to see his license".

The good sheriff went on to explain, what many here have tried to say, that without RAS or PC, the simple presence of a firearm is not cause to "demand" to see a license. The officer can certainly stop and ask, but it would be considered a Tier I encounter, and the man on the street has no reason to show a Georgia Weapons Carry License.

GCO has worked hard to provide education materials to the local and state law enforcement agencies concerning this matter. In fact, the Chief Deputy of Oconee County, J. Lee Weems, is one of the only POST certified officers in the State of Georgia to have a certified training class on this very subject. I have seen notes from his lecture, when he was putting it together. He has taught this subject all across the state, and continues to do so today. He is available to any agency that would like to learn more.

His Sheriff, Scott R. Berry, who is president of the Georgia Sheriff's Association, has stated many times that based on years of old training and habits, that anytime an officer "observes a firearm" the initial reaction is that "something must be done".

It is going to take years before these old habits are broken, and the belief that an officer must stop. detain, and interrogate a person simply because they observe an individual with a firearm. This comes from the President of the Georgia Sheriffs Association.

Handle the encounter how you want, and try to do your best to resolve the situation the best you know how. In my case, I finally showed the officer my License, went about my way, and then followed up with the superiors and command staff. Letters from the GCO lawyers went a long way in explaining the way the law is written, and how it works. The agency finally agreed that their policy to stop all carriers was wrong, and have revised it to the wording of the existing law. Plain and simple, absent RAS or PC, simple observation of a firearm is not a reason to conduct a stop (Tier II) encounter.

Keep in mind, that in my opinion, the side of the road or sidewalk is not the place to "argue or try to teach" an officer about the laws. Follow up and follow through.

If you are an officer, feel free to contact Chief Weems at his office. I have heard and seen him say before that he is more than happy to discuss this matter with other officers, and in fact, I bet he could even provide some continuing education on the subject to any agency. I'm not sure if officers are required to have any "formal" continuing education, so maybe one of you could help me on that.

Good luck,

Jerry

 

[Patronus]

Should I go back and edit them all to "GWL Please", "firearms permit please" etc etc. It still changes nothing. When you initiate an unlawful search without reasonable suspicion the LEO is overstepping the law.

Apologies. There are certain code words and phrases that we all recognize as inflamatory. You arguements are fine, now that I can actually get past what looked like deliberate baiting and speak to them. I've not said a word about an unlawful search. I have been saying that I think a simple request for your GWl is a reasonable request when you are seen to be armed. GCO may not hold that position and if they win then I'm more than happy NOT to be asked. But if LEO asks I am also just as happy to show it. It doesn't hurt me at all.

My base arguement about the 2nd is that it is a constitutionally guranteed right and should never have been modified by the states to begin with. If that had been left alone as intended we could all be armed without permits or restrictions on when, where or how we could carry. THAT would be the ideal. As is, I am not about to tell a cop he can't see my permit because I don't have to show it.

I think my attitude towards cops differs from several people here. I don't see cops as extensions of legislators on power trips I see them as brave men and women who put themselves in danger, helping protect our society and citizenry, while having one hand tied behind their backs and half the beneficiaries of their work kicking them in the shins. If something I can do will make one of them have a slightly better day then I'm glad to help.

I also see it as a responsibility of a citizen, especially an armed one, to proactively support the laws or our society(even those laws I don't like), and do my best to simplify and expedite any encounter with LEO's whenver possible. I enjoy my rights and liberties but I don't feel the need to ride rough shod over other people to prove my right to do so. I've encountered a couple of LEO's on power trips and it's no fun. But more often than not the LEO's I've met have been normal folks like most of the guys on here. I just can't understand snarling at a cop just because you default to thinking he is going to stomp on your rights.

 

[sw0596]

Officers are required to have continuing education and all should know the information you posted. I said SHOULD know this. Here's the issue some may not understand. An individual may be carrying in public without information that a nearby officer has which may cause the officer to question the carrier. Such as, officers are staking out a shopping center because a business owner believes a suspect has been casing him out for a robbery. Joe citizen who is carrying happens to walk by and the officers check him out. Joe citizen knows nothing about the reported suspicious behavior. We could come up with scenarios all day and what if this thing to death. This is why I plead with you, if you are contacted show the LEO you're a good guy and it will work out in your favor.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Should I go back and edit them all to "GWL Please", "firearms permit please" etc etc. It still changes nothing. When you initiate an unlawful search without reasonable suspicion the LEO is overstepping the law.

There is nothing unlawful about determining the legality of an individual carrying a concealed weapon. It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in the state of GA unless you have a GWL. Not everyone in the state has a GWL so it is reasonable in the ordinary course of business for LE to determine if you are a GWL carrier should they determine you to be carrying a concealed weapon. It will hold up in court. It has held up in court. It is probable cause and there is a legal precedent for it. If you think differently; you are wrong. Sorry.

As is, I am not about to tell a cop he can't see my permit because I don't have to show it.

I think my attitude towards cops differs from several people here. I don't see cops as extensions of legislators on power trips I see them as brave men and women who put themselves in danger, helping protect our society and citizenry, while having one hand tied behind their backs and half the beneficiaries of their work kicking them in the shins. If something I can do will make one of them have a slightly better day then I'm glad to help.

I also see it as a responsibility of a citizen, especially an armed one, to proactively support the laws or our society(even those laws I don't like), and do my best to simplify and expedite any encounter with LEO's whenver possible. I enjoy my rights and liberties but I don't feel the need to ride rough shod over other people to prove my right to do so. I've encountered a couple of LEO's on power trips and it's no fun. But more often than not the LEO's I've met have been normal folks like most of the guys on here. I just can't understand snarling at a cop just because you default to thinking he is going to stomp on your rights.

Well said, sir. Well said, indeed.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

This is why I plead with you, if you are contacted show the LEO you're a good guy and it will work out in your favor.

^This.

 

[js415]

Officers are required to have continuing education and all should know the information you posted. I said SHOULD know this. Here's the issue some may not understand. An individual may be carrying in public without information that a nearby officer has which may cause the officer to question the carrier.

This I agree with, and understand. Hence my comments about not trying to conduct a legal clinic on the side of the road or the sidewalk!!! Do what you need to do and then follow through later if a simple resolution can not be had at the point of contact.

I think, and I am not sure now because the thread has twisted and turned, but I was mostly answering to the original question. The original question, I think, was simply if an officer could demand your license if he saw you carrying openly or "printing".

Thanks for the answer about the Continuing Education. Every job, whatever it is, should always require some sort if CI, if you ask me.

Calm, rational, non-emotional debate is always so much better than name calling and innuendo. It takes time to change the way things are done sometimes, trust me, I know, but it always works best in the end.

All of this, is my opinion of course. You know how those are.

 

[captdave77]

There is nothing unlawful about determining the legality of an individual carrying a concealed weapon. It is illegal to carry a concealed weapon in the state of GA unless you have a GWL. Not everyone in the state has a GWL so it is reasonable in the ordinary course of business for LE to determine if you are a GWL carrier should they determine you to be carrying a concealed weapon. It will hold up in court. It has held up in court. It is probable cause and there is a legal precedent for it. If you think differently; you are wrong. Sorry.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[wozbean]

Officers are required to have continuing education and all should know the information you posted. I said SHOULD know this. Here's the issue some may not understand. An individual may be carrying in public without information that a nearby officer has which may cause the officer to question the carrier. Such as, officers are staking out a shopping center because a business owner believes a suspect has been casing him out for a robbery. Joe citizen who is carrying happens to walk by and the officers check him out. Joe citizen knows nothing about the reported suspicious behavior. We could come up with scenarios all day and what if this thing to death. This is why I plead with you, if you are contacted show the LEO you're a good guy and it will work out in your favor.

All the officer has to do is tell me what his RS is and I will happily comply. BTW a 911 call about a MWG is not necessarily RS or PC.

 

[captdave77]

Stopping someone to check his permit is the same as pulling him over to see if he has a driver's license except the right to drive does not exist.