Im pretty sure im about to start an ODT fire lol...

[Leshaire]

Possibly in your world but I don't think so in the real world!
ballistically almost identical if comparing same weight/type projectiles, Very simply if you push the same weight/ diameter projectile at the same velocity then you get the same basic performance, there should be no disagreement on that.
Pressures they operate at are virtually identical, as for a smaller package you are comparing a OAL of 45 GAP at 1.137== the 45 ACp is 1.275, not much difference at all.
as the magazines are the same size or near then that's what the gun has to fit around.
The reason they are hard to find its another cartridge that is in search of solution where there is no problem.

Not sure what the first sentence is even referring too...

Quote from online:
"The .45 GAP has the same diameter as the .45 ACP pistol cartridge but is slightly shorter, and uses a small-pistol primer instead of the large-pistol primer most commonly used in .45 ACP ammunition. Originally, the maximum bullet weight of the .45 GAP was 200 grains (13 g). In order to provide terminal ballistics that matched the standard 230-grain (15 g) .45 ACP loads, the .45 GAP was designed to operate at a higher standard pressure-roughly equivalent to the higher pressures found in .45 ACP "+P" rounds. Since the .45 GAP has a much smaller cartridge volume than the .45 ACP, the desired pressure and resulting velocity needed to be achieved through powder selection alone. Later development concluded that the .45 GAP could also fire 230-grain (15 g) ammunition as does the .45 ACP."

Thank you come again.

 

[sami weinbergstein]

best defense caliber is the person behind the weapon. Chose whatever you want, whatever bullet size you want but if you don't have the skills that go along with practice they you can carry a 75MM howitzer and it will do no good. Skilled operator can take down bad guys with a .22 if needed.

 

[Leshaire]

best defense caliber is the person behind the weapon. Chose whatever you want, whatever bullet size you want but if you don't have the skills that go along with practice they you can carry a 75MM howitzer and it will do no good. Skilled operator can take down bad guys with a .22 if needed.

Meh. Id rather have the best chance at the quickest possibility for full incapacitation..

 

[mkdhotrod]

stopping power... LOL.

 

[Flashover16]

Not sure what the first sentence is even referring too...

Quote from online:
"The .45 GAP has the same diameter as the .45 ACP pistol cartridge but is slightly shorter, and uses a small-pistol primer instead of the large-pistol primer most commonly used in .45 ACP ammunition. Originally, the maximum bullet weight of the .45 GAP was 200 grains (13 g). In order to provide terminal ballistics that matched the standard 230-grain (15 g) .45 ACP loads, the .45 GAP was designed to operate at a higher standard pressure—roughly equivalent to the higher pressures found in .45 ACP "+P" rounds. Since the .45 GAP has a much smaller cartridge volume than the .45 ACP, the desired pressure and resulting velocity needed to be achieved through powder selection alone. Later development concluded that the .45 GAP could also fire 230-grain (15 g) ammunition as does the .45 ACP."

Thank you come again.

ahem! the first sentence was in regards to your incorrect (if I read it correctly) statement that the only things that were similar to the 45 acp was the projectile?
And by the way I am not quoting from some internet search either.
Not trying to get a flaming session going as I am only a visitor here, but the 45 GAP iS a 45 acp that is shorter.--Not more efficient or more powerful.
it does handle the lighter projectiles as the reduced case capacity would increase pressures with the heavier projectiles as they are longer and seat deeper in the case.
for all the middle of the road weight projectiles the cartridges are almost mirror images, and of course the 45 acp can handle above the 230 grain that definitely is the top for a 45 GAP, only using the most modern of powders does the GAP handle the 230 grainers very well.
Pressure is 23,000 PSI for the GAP, exactly what top pressure is for the 45 ACP.
There is NO plus P pressure for the GAP!
Perhaps I read your comment incorrectly but it appeared that you were stating that the projectile was the only real similar thing in the 2 cartridges?
as for a smaller gun well I think the actual difference in width of a 45 GAP Glock and a 45 acp Glock is like .09" difference?
I am not a Glock guy so could be wrong on that, but generally as Glock tried to keep the grip thickness the same as the 9MM, 40 and 357 Sig they generally also have a lower capacity magazine than a true Glock 45 acp..
anyway just to provide actual data on the 45 GAP VS the 45 ACP.
hope this helps.

 

[Flashover16]

This is not a self defense discussion. Its a discussion about the 5.7. I was joking when it comes to crack cocaine. Lighten up.

Sorry I got confused when the discussion went to penetration, and stopping power of attackers!

 

[mkdhotrod]

Just messing with you. Disregard.

I missed it

 

[protective measures]

From memory the .45 G.A.P. was conceived in part due Glocks desire to have their own cartridge. Smith had come out w/ the .40 S&W, Sig had come out w/ the .357 Sig, & Glock had ... well... nothing.

They took an old ineffiecient round (.45 ACP) that had a good street rep. & modernized it.
The G-37, 38, & 39 all had the basic dimensions of the G-17/22 series along w/ their smaller compact & subcompact versions thereby addressing the problem many shooters had w/ the G-21, G-30, etc. of the grip circumference being too large.

It sounded good in theory but as we all know it never really took off.
Kind of a shame as it is a nice, efficient round. I owned & shot a G-37 for awhile but like the .357 Sig it was expensive to shoot (a lot) & really didn't do anything that a more traditional ( & affordable) round didn't already do.

 

[Leshaire]

ahem! the first sentence was in regards to your incorrect (if I read it correctly) statement that the only things that were similar to the 45 acp was the projectile?
And by the way I am not quoting from some internet search either.
Not trying to get a flaming session going as I am only a visitor here, but the 45 GAP iS a 45 acp that is shorter.--Not more efficient or more powerful.
it does handle the lighter projectiles as the reduced case capacity would increase pressures with the heavier projectiles as they are longer and seat deeper in the case.
for all the middle of the road weight projectiles the cartridges are almost mirror images, and of course the 45 acp can handle above the 230 grain that definitely is the top for a 45 GAP, only using the most modern of powders does the GAP handle the 230 grainers very well.
Pressure is 23,000 PSI for the GAP, exactly what top pressure is for the 45 ACP.
There is NO plus P pressure for the GAP!
Perhaps I read your comment incorrectly but it appeared that you were stating that the projectile was the only real similar thing in the 2 cartridges?
as for a smaller gun well I think the actual difference in width of a 45 GAP Glock and a 45 acp Glock is like .09" difference?
I am not a Glock guy so could be wrong on that, but generally as Glock tried to keep the grip thickness the same as the 9MM, 40 and 357 Sig they generally also have a lower capacity magazine than a true Glock 45 acp..
anyway just to provide actual data on the 45 GAP VS the 45 ACP.
hope this helps.

incorrect... how is that incorrect? Different size case, different powder load, different projectile (not always), different velocity, different energy...?? Please explain how they are the same.....

45 ACP 900 ft/s (270 m/s) 414 ft·lbf energy (in 230 grain)
45 GAP 935 ft/s (285 m/s) 447 ft·lbf energy (in 230 grain) and in a smaller package

Similar, sure? Same, NO.

 

[Leshaire]

ahem! the first sentence was in regards to your incorrect (if I read it correctly) statement that the only things that were similar to the 45 acp was the projectile?
And by the way I am not quoting from some internet search either.
Not trying to get a flaming session going as I am only a visitor here, but the 45 GAP iS a 45 acp that is shorter.--Not more efficient or more powerful.
it does handle the lighter projectiles as the reduced case capacity would increase pressures with the heavier projectiles as they are longer and seat deeper in the case.
for all the middle of the road weight projectiles the cartridges are almost mirror images, and of course the 45 acp can handle above the 230 grain that definitely is the top for a 45 GAP, only using the most modern of powders does the GAP handle the 230 grainers very well.
Pressure is 23,000 PSI for the GAP, exactly what top pressure is for the 45 ACP.
There is NO plus P pressure for the GAP!
Perhaps I read your comment incorrectly but it appeared that you were stating that the projectile was the only real similar thing in the 2 cartridges?
as for a smaller gun well I think the actual difference in width of a 45 GAP Glock and a 45 acp Glock is like .09" difference?
I am not a Glock guy so could be wrong on that, but generally as Glock tried to keep the grip thickness the same as the 9MM, 40 and 357 Sig they generally also have a lower capacity magazine than a true Glock 45 acp..
anyway just to provide actual data on the 45 GAP VS the 45 ACP.
hope this helps.

A: Pressure is still that or more of a 45ACP +P
B: Correct, size had a lot to do with the initial idea behind it.

What youre missing is that I think 45GAP is stupid. Id NEVER own one ever. No way in hell. Why would anyone?!?! Unless it was FAR more common and accessible. I am merely arguing facts here, not what YOU like better or what the ODT community likes better...