What caliber do you carry and why?

[RockRiver]

You can't really neglect momentum sepecially at those speeds. Think of being shot like a colision because thats what it is. Momentum is what moves the bullet thru the object being shot (in our discussion a person). It is what gets the bullet into the person so the energy can do the destructive damage. Your talking about the kinetic enery of the bullet being the powerful force in this well the formula for Kinetic Energy is KE=1/2MV^2 and momentum is P=MV so if you say that you can neglect momentum because the bullets have very little mass then by that logic you could also neglect the Kinetic Energy of the bullet. When dealing with objects at high speeds you NEVER neglect the mass of an object.

Sorry, I didn't mean to give the impression that we need to neglect momentum as far as bullet travel goes. The DIFFERENCE in momentum in a .45ACP and a 9mm can be neglected, depending on which loads you are talking about and ASSUMING they both have enough to reach optimal penetration. I'm not saying that a bullet doesn't have momentum or that we can neglect mass when finding momentum, that doesn't make any sense at all. But as far as expansion goes, it is the energy that matters most. The reason why the kinetic energy of a 9mm is close to that of a .45ACP is because velocity is squared in the kinetic energy formula, meaning it is more important in getting larger values. If you don't believe me, do the math!

 

[protective measures]

This has been an interesting thread but what I would love to see would be if some of you who don't agree or possibly "get" what I'm saying would look up & reference authoritative, documented information that you think isn't in agreement with my statements or does agree... either way.

I have studied this stuff for 26 years and although I am not very smart myself, I do know & have read the findings of some very smart people. I started out with different opinions than I have now but when confronted with documented & proven accounts & test results that I sat out to disprove & couldn't, it sent me on an odyssey to learn all that I could... and I'm still learning.

So if you all can find hard data contradictory to my findings, then I can learn that way instead of spending a fortune on books & losing countless hours researching when I could be doing classes & making new class outlines.

 

[jsquared]

25mm, because bigger is always better.

 

[Dynamis]

So if you all can find hard data contradictory to my findings, then I can learn that way instead of spending a fortune on books & losing countless hours researching when I could be doing classes & making new class outlines.

Throw down the gauntlet.

 

[Bear44]

I believe most of this applies to higher velocity rifle bullets.

While there is "bruising" evidenced where smaller capillaries are destroyed, especially with larger and/or higher velocity rounds, the larger VITAL veins and arteries are very resilient and retain their ability to function moreso than with the permanent damage done by a rifle round that creates a massive wound channel around the bullets path through shock due to velocity.

This localized capillary "damage", while ugly looking, does not really contribute much to stopping or killing the animal (or person) with a pistol bullet out of a typical handgun that is used for sel-defense.

It is the destruction of the vital organs or the severing of major arteries & veins, causing blood loss & loss of blood pressure, which in turn causes unconsciousness & organ failure that stops or kills the subject... unless again the Cen.Ner.Sys. is hit.

.45's, .40's, & 9mm's are not really recommended for use in hunting because they don't have the horsepower to humanely kill unless you have perfect SHOT PLACEMENT & a good bullet design.

Most of your post I agree with as it relates to rifle bullets... pistol bullets, not so much.

I have been studying terminal effects of pistol bullets on flesh & other media heavily since 1985 until now so most of what I relate is not "stuff" I just pulled up out of the air, but information gained from years & years of study.

I used the rifle bullet example to show how a bullet does the job different than an arrow. A pistol bullet just does not do it as well. The question becomes this. Do you think that an arrow with a 1.25 inch cutting area and four blades would stop someone as fast as any expanding bullet from 9mm on up? The arrow will have a much larger diameter direct contact wound than even a fully expanded 9mm or 45. If I understand your logic, this would make the arrow more effective.

 

[Dynamis]

Hey Okuma, can you create a new sub-forum titled "Splitting Hairs"? I would be glad to move the 300 or so threads over there.

 

[shaneadams90]

^^^^CCW you trying to stir the pot?^^^^^


I have been using Hydra-shocks as my personal protection ammo in 9mm, 40, and 45. Would like to know what people think is the MOST advanced Per Pro ammo out there and why....not a hi jack, I think this still belongs in this thread but can start a new one if need be.

 

[Dynamis]

I think this still belongs in this thread but can start a new one if need be.

You terrorist!

 

[shaneadams90]

not a terrorist......a "patriot"

see how semantics works......

 

[Dynamis]

No big words allowed Mr.Adams! This thread is about cat sized wound cavities versus small dog sized wound cavities! Calling all cats and Chihuahuas for testing!