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.40, why/why not?
- Thread starter ckarr
- Start date
well while a pistol may not provide near the shock that a rifle round does , the point is that it still hurts!
anything that hurts produces a uncomfortable feeling to the nerves/brain.
so to say that a pistol projectile that transfers pain to the target makes no difference in effectiveness is simply untrue.
it don't matter if someone is throwing rocks at you if they hit you then it hurts and effects the body.
plus not many carry a rifle/shotgun in a IWB holster. this is an old argument that pistol cartridges don't matter.
I am guessing that I have seen in the vicinity of about 400-500 gun shot victims by the way and in actual shooting scenes, not just read about the effect that gun shots have on a body.
any energy transfer usually effects how the body/mind operates.
again Knock Down power can not be measured accurately.
Not according to most experts... including Mas Ayoob, & for example this excellent article from Don Kates:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjA3a2H0NLKAhWH2B4KHRcOAt8QFggcMAA&url=http://www.ammoland.com/2013/06/firearm-stopping-power-fact-fiction-and-anecdotes/&usg=AFQjCNGoipKIDM7-dCKlhhPCOqwdVXPVIA&sig2=PPFfgjt-4wCDPiVc5-eFcg
I agree that some people will stop because of the mental aspects of being shot but a determined attacker or one full of adrenaline may not even know or react to being shot.
This is a very common phenomenon documented in many case studies.
Most of the folks I have talked to that were shot during high-stress incidents (like swapping shots with another person) did not know they were shot, unless they were hit in a bone.
Good buddy of mine was shot at nearly press contact distance. First bullet entered the fleshy part of his hip, exited his butt cheek, and hit him in the calf. He never felt any of that. Second round hit him in the left ankle and broke it. That he felt instantly. Caliber was 9x18 Makarov. FWIW, he returned fire with his G22 loaded with Winchester Ranger SXT 180grn .40S&W. Struck the perp multiple times, took out both lungs and heart. DRT.
Another buddy was hit with 6 rounds of 230grn .45ACP. 4 to the trauma plate, one to the face (entered beside his left nostril, angled downward, exited his neck, entered the top of his shoulder, exited his back) and the 6th one broke the load bearing bone in his lower left leg. After being hit 6 times, he returned fire and killed the perp, using a G22 with 180grn .40S&W loaded very hit by Georgia Arms.
Good buddy of mine was shot at nearly press contact distance. First bullet entered the fleshy part of his hip, exited his butt cheek, and hit him in the calf. He never felt any of that. Second round hit him in the left ankle and broke it. That he felt instantly. Caliber was 9x18 Makarov. FWIW, he returned fire with his G22 loaded with Winchester Ranger SXT 180grn .40S&W. Struck the perp multiple times, took out both lungs and heart. DRT.
Another buddy was hit with 6 rounds of 230grn .45ACP. 4 to the trauma plate, one to the face (entered beside his left nostril, angled downward, exited his neck, entered the top of his shoulder, exited his back) and the 6th one broke the load bearing bone in his lower left leg. After being hit 6 times, he returned fire and killed the perp, using a G22 with 180grn .40S&W loaded very hit by Georgia Arms.
I know a man that took a round in the sternum while getting off a chopper in a hot LZ in Vietnam. Didn't even know he was hit until he took cover in the tree line and realized he was bleeding. The bullet went downward and exited out of his groin IIRC.
I am not a 40 fan, That said there isn't anything wrong with the .40 if that is what you shoot well and what you like. I perfer a .45 even though some times a carry a 9 becausef the size of a small 45 is still to large for the cloths I may be wearing on any given day.
There is a lot of info and opinons about stoping power and which may be the best to get the job done, Few will agree even the experts on which round is best.
The best chance to stop and attacker is either a spine shot at the shoulder height or above or a head shot. I notice some complain about the recoil of the 40. if that is the issue and you want to use a 40 then spend some time on the range often with a 44 mag. you will become a custom to the heavy recoil and never notice the recoil of the .40.
As far as energy tranfer goes regardless it has some effect. If your round hits bone the tranfer will be much more noticeable than a flesh wound, to say it has no effect or no noticeable effect is false. Being hit with anything with enough force can and will move an attacker to some degree, altering his (or her) aim and could very well save your life...
There is a lot of info and opinons about stoping power and which may be the best to get the job done, Few will agree even the experts on which round is best.
The best chance to stop and attacker is either a spine shot at the shoulder height or above or a head shot. I notice some complain about the recoil of the 40. if that is the issue and you want to use a 40 then spend some time on the range often with a 44 mag. you will become a custom to the heavy recoil and never notice the recoil of the .40.
As far as energy tranfer goes regardless it has some effect. If your round hits bone the tranfer will be much more noticeable than a flesh wound, to say it has no effect or no noticeable effect is false. Being hit with anything with enough force can and will move an attacker to some degree, altering his (or her) aim and could very well save your life...
I find the recoil of the 40 does not bother me so much, but I do track the sights slower with 40 recoil when compared with 9mm
Personally I prefer .40 to 9mm or .45 but thats only because I learned to shoot pistol with a Beretta 96. I own all pistols in all three calibers and honestly when I come to defending my family from a threat I dont really think it matters what you use its shot placement that counts.
According to several ballistic gelatin tests, the best 9mm rounds perform pretty much the same as the best .40 rounds when it comes to penetration, with similar-looking wound cavities and permanent wound channels. The .40 opens up just a bit wider, but it's not all that much of a difference.
However, in MY OWN TESTS, shooting stacks of wet newspaper (soaked for hours, and very soft), the .40 was clearly superior.
There was as much difference from the 9mm and .40 S&W as there was between the .380 fmj and the 9mm fmj. A big difference.
(Nonetheless, I carry a 9mm rather than a .40 because in a sub-compact gun with a stubby two-finger grip, I want lower recoil. I don't even normally use +P 9mm rounds in it, either. I prefer to shoot tight groups at a "Pop.Pop.Pop.Pop" pace, rather than " BOOM! (pause) BOOM! (pause) BOOM! (pause...)"
However, in MY OWN TESTS, shooting stacks of wet newspaper (soaked for hours, and very soft), the .40 was clearly superior.
There was as much difference from the 9mm and .40 S&W as there was between the .380 fmj and the 9mm fmj. A big difference.
(Nonetheless, I carry a 9mm rather than a .40 because in a sub-compact gun with a stubby two-finger grip, I want lower recoil. I don't even normally use +P 9mm rounds in it, either. I prefer to shoot tight groups at a "Pop.Pop.Pop.Pop" pace, rather than " BOOM! (pause) BOOM! (pause) BOOM! (pause...)"
