If this was a real gun would it be legal?

[JDS556762]

It would be a short barrel rifle.

...with a BARREL LENGTH of 16 inches or greater, no sir it would not be a short barreled rifle. Here's what I've always been told, since working at a gun store about that. "It's not necessarily an AOW but I know it's illegal." Barrel length 16", OAL less than 26", started life as a rifle. It FOR SURE is not an SBR or SBS respectively

 

[BLIP]

Okay he said it passed with flying colors now I can take possession of it. Thank everyone

 

[NWSharpshooter]

...with a BARREL LENGTH of 16 inches or greater, no sir it would not be a short barreled rifle. Here's what I've always been told, since working at a gun store about that. "It's not necessarily an AOW but I know it's illegal." Barrel length 16", OAL less than 26", started life as a rifle. It FOR SURE is not an SBR or SBS respectively

From NFA

shoulder-fired, rifled firearm, made from a rifle, with a barrel length of less than 16 in (41 cm) or overall length of less than 26 in (66 cm)

 

[NWSharpshooter]

You are thinking shotguns which cannot be pistols as they have a bore greater than .50 and cannot be rifles as they are smooth bore.

The only way to make a 10/22 an AOW is to put a forward grip on a charger.

 

[JDS556762]

From NFA

Can you shoot me a link to BATFE sight you got that from? Me and my comworkers at the LGS have had this theoretical question a few times, especially with PGO shotgun conversions before they were popular.

This has been somewhat of "known" grey area because I have never seen that. Here's what I've always known and relayed to customers or friends. If definition has been "refined" I'd love to have the documentation to prove my future cases as well.

Good discussion!

So the touchy part has always been the OAL when in regards to shortening the barrel. I've never heard an SBR defined with the "or" OAL less than 26" and bbl 16" >

 

[NWSharpshooter]

Can you shoot me a link to BATFE sight you got that from? Me and my comworkers at the LGS have had this theoretical question a few times, especially with PGO shotgun conversions before they were popular.

This has been somewhat of "known" grey area because I have never seen that. Here's what I've always known and relayed to customers or friends. If definition has been "refined" I'd love to have the documentation to prove my future cases as well.

Good discussion!

View attachment 1339969

So the touchy part has always been the OAL when in regards to shortening the barrel. I've never heard an SBR defined with the "or" OAL less than 26" and bbl 16" >

Your definition is the same. Read it. The OR is right there.

 

[JDS556762]

You are thinking shotguns which cannot be pistols as they have a bore greater than .50 and cannot be rifles as they are smooth bore.

The only way to make a 10/22 an AOW is to put a forward grip on a charger.

I get where you're coming from trust me I've just had this conversation before and actually not using the 10/22 example but using the PGO example was discussing this with an BATFE agent earlier in the year after our store was robbed and we were being audited by BATFE it's weird man but I understand your reasoning would LOVE to have Good clarity but don't wanna be the guy who writes the ATF all the time asking if stuff is ok to do lol

 

[JDS556762]

Your definition is the same. Read it. The OR is right there.

That states it's a "firearm" much like a PGO even if it started life as a rifle

 

[NWSharpshooter]

Can you shoot me a link to BATFE sight you got that from? Me and my comworkers at the LGS have had this theoretical question a few times, especially with PGO shotgun conversions before they were popular.

This has been somewhat of "known" grey area because I have never seen that. Here's what I've always known and relayed to customers or friends. If definition has been "refined" I'd love to have the documentation to prove my future cases as well.

Good discussion!

View attachment 1339969

So the touchy part has always been the OAL when in regards to shortening the barrel. I've never heard an SBR defined with the "or" OAL less than 26" and bbl 16" >

28 USC 5835 (a)
(a)Firearm
The term “firearm” means (1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (5) any other weapon, as defined in subsection (e); (6) a machinegun; (7) any silencer (as defined in section 921 of title 18, United States Code); and (8) a destructive device. The term “firearm” shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machinegun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Secretary finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector’s item and is not likely to be used as a weapon.

4684(2), 4685, or 4686 of title 10 of the United States Code; or any other device which the Secretary finds is not likely to be used as a weapon, or is an antique or is a rifle which the owner intends to use solely for sporting purposes.

(g)Antique firearm
The term “antique firearm” means any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rim fire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898 (including any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898) and also any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(h)Unserviceable firearm
The term “unserviceable firearm” means a firearm which is incapable of discharging a shot by means of an explosive and incapable of being readily restored to a firing condition.

(i)Make
The term “make”, and the various derivatives of such word, shall include manufacturing (other than by one qualified to engage in such business under this chapter), putting together, altering, any combination of these, or otherwise producing a firearm.

(j)Transfer
The term “transfer” and the various derivatives of such word, shall include selling, assigning, pledging, leasing, loaning, giving away, or otherwise disposing of.

(k)Dealer
The term “dealer” means any person, not a manufacturer or importer, engaged in the business of selling, renting, leasing, or loaning firearms and shall include pawnbrokers who accept firearms as collateral for loans.

(l)Importer
The term “importer” means any person who is engaged in the business of importing or bringing firearms into the United States.

(m)Manufacturer
The term “manufacturer” means any person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing firearms.

 

[NWSharpshooter]

That states it's a "firearm" much like a PGO even if it started life as a rifle

I get where you're coming from trust me I've just had this conversation before and actually not using the 10/22 example but using the PGO example was discussing this with an BATFE agent earlier in the year after our store was robbed and we were being audited by BATFE it's weird man but I understand your reasoning would LOVE to have Good clarity but don't wanna be the guy who writes the ATF all the time asking if stuff is ok to do lol

PGO is smooth bore and greater than .50 caliber.