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Long range shooting
- Thread starter Unitedfpt
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OUCH! $$$
Don't go 6mm right out the gate.
You can find good 6.5cm on the shelf easier.
Precision Rifle Blog and Accurate Shooter are two great websites.
Again..Go find a dealer that has good glass..Get them to let you look outside for distance.
Set the rear diopter by looking at clear blue sky or a white wall.
Set it so the reticle is crisp.
Now your ready to evaluate the scope.
Does it have a tunnel effect?
Is the eye relief pickier at higher magnification?
Can you read road signs, mail boxes clearly at distance.
For what it's worth most scopes recticles are set to work at Max power.
If you use it for drop at like 18 power and it's a 24 power you need to practice at 18 power or your hash marks may be off.
When I bought my Kahles..We had $45k worth of scopes at sunset ranging at 1 mile.
It wasn't embarrassed going up against a $6k Smidt&Bender.
You can find good 6.5cm on the shelf easier.
Precision Rifle Blog and Accurate Shooter are two great websites.
Again..Go find a dealer that has good glass..Get them to let you look outside for distance.
Set the rear diopter by looking at clear blue sky or a white wall.
Set it so the reticle is crisp.
Now your ready to evaluate the scope.
Does it have a tunnel effect?
Is the eye relief pickier at higher magnification?
Can you read road signs, mail boxes clearly at distance.
For what it's worth most scopes recticles are set to work at Max power.
If you use it for drop at like 18 power and it's a 24 power you need to practice at 18 power or your hash marks may be off.
When I bought my Kahles..We had $45k worth of scopes at sunset ranging at 1 mile.
It wasn't embarrassed going up against a $6k Smidt&Bender.
FFP will fix your holdover at magnification issue. Kahles makes great stuff, I have their lpvo. Some complain of CA on their precision scopes but they no doubt have bright glass.
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It really is. It has such a high value proposition. You have to spend a lot more money to get a little more better. They have great eye boxes which is something I really look for now days.
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Once I went FFP MIL/MIL I can never go back.
Bergara 308
I don’t agree with the statement “They are more accurate, will stay accurate at greater range than the 308.......”, but it does have several advantages over the .308.
For the average student in my courses, I see absolutely no difference in how well students shoot out to 1,000 yards based on the caliber they are shooting, as long as the ammo itself is good ammo. On the average, I have as many good hits with the .308 as with 6.5CM. That ain’t scientific by any means; all shooters and rifles aren’t equal.
I have found with factory ammunition, given the same gun the 6.5's shoot inside the .308's 95 percent of the time. "Why" is a whole different question I can't answer. Could it be that 6.5 ammo is just made to higher manufacturing standards? Is it that most manufactures have a more optimized twist rate or better chambering for 6.5? Maybe it has to do with the amount of freebore in each cartridge? I don't know and I'm certainly not an engineer.
If we had a custom gun, custom barrel, equal time spent on chambering, lapping and meticulous hand loads what would the outcome be? I would like to say they would be similar but I'm not so sure that would be that case. Would the gap close or widen?
If you look to the benchrest guys they gravitate toward 6mm cartridges. Every aspect of their game revolves around accuracy, and history would say they believe (and have proven?) some cartridges are more inherently accurate than others which is why the top guys are pretty much always shooting the same pills.
In my personal experience I do believe 6.5 is inherently more accurate based on what I've seen. Its not completely uncommon for 6.5's to shoot 1/4 moa or better in factory sub $1000 guns. While out there, it's a bit harder to find those guns in .308.
A guy as good as you
cmshoot
could certainly realize that difference in accuracy but I remember you saying you absolutely hate to shoot and measure groups. I think if you were one of the guys that enjoyed doing that, you would be seeing the same thing. Those difference may or may not matter on steel, at distance, but nevertheless, they exist. We are definitely in the realm of "splitting hairs."
I'm in the same boat but I have a counterpart that buys pretty much all the same precision guns I do and is obsessed with groups. He's been through a few factory 6.5s shooting in the .12xx range (with factory ammo, 143 ELD-M), but no .308s there yet. I havent shot below .3 moa (6.5) in a while with my best ever being .25 moa that I was able to hold out to 400y (.243) but it's not enjoyable at all to me, more like stress. I suspect my days of shooting great groups are fading with age anyway. Nothing lasts forever!
Ballistically, obviously, the 6.5 is superior. Terminally, it depends on the distance.
To the OP, my personal opinion is that if you have a .308, don't sell it, it's absolutely good enough to do pretty much anything you need it to do. I would say 9 out of 10 people wont be able to realize the potential difference between the two or just won't care to try. But if you are buying a new gun, buy the 6.5, it's just better.
If we had a custom gun, custom barrel, equal time spent on chambering, lapping and meticulous hand loads what would the outcome be? I would like to say they would be similar but I'm not so sure that would be that case. Would the gap close or widen?
If you look to the benchrest guys they gravitate toward 6mm cartridges. Every aspect of their game revolves around accuracy, and history would say they believe (and have proven?) some cartridges are more inherently accurate than others which is why the top guys are pretty much always shooting the same pills.
In my personal experience I do believe 6.5 is inherently more accurate based on what I've seen. Its not completely uncommon for 6.5's to shoot 1/4 moa or better in factory sub $1000 guns. While out there, it's a bit harder to find those guns in .308.
A guy as good as you
cmshoot
could certainly realize that difference in accuracy but I remember you saying you absolutely hate to shoot and measure groups. I think if you were one of the guys that enjoyed doing that, you would be seeing the same thing. Those difference may or may not matter on steel, at distance, but nevertheless, they exist. We are definitely in the realm of "splitting hairs."I'm in the same boat but I have a counterpart that buys pretty much all the same precision guns I do and is obsessed with groups. He's been through a few factory 6.5s shooting in the .12xx range (with factory ammo, 143 ELD-M), but no .308s there yet. I havent shot below .3 moa (6.5) in a while with my best ever being .25 moa that I was able to hold out to 400y (.243) but it's not enjoyable at all to me, more like stress. I suspect my days of shooting great groups are fading with age anyway. Nothing lasts forever!
Ballistically, obviously, the 6.5 is superior. Terminally, it depends on the distance.
To the OP, my personal opinion is that if you have a .308, don't sell it, it's absolutely good enough to do pretty much anything you need it to do. I would say 9 out of 10 people wont be able to realize the potential difference between the two or just won't care to try. But if you are buying a new gun, buy the 6.5, it's just better.
