Question for LEOs and advocates

[chucklenut]

This
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is the same as this?
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lol i dont tend to perform a background check or give that much fore-thought into who im dealing with on a personal level when being approached in a professional sense

if a cop comes up to me, they are a cop. they represent the government and are therefor an extension of that. they can be nice and smiling all they want, but in the end they are still a government employee

also, im a member of the US army (as a reservist) and while there are a few i have met who have truly felt the call of duty and pride associated with their work, they are few and far between. seems like most of them are just there for the pay check and could give two ****s honestly (at least what i have seen, maybe thats the reason behind my resentment for anything government related, the bureaucracy and inefficiency involved irritates me, especially when advancement based on merit takes a back seat to supposed tenure)

 

[Ken Ford]

lol i dont tend to perform a background check or give that much fore-thought into who im dealing with on a personal level when being approached in a professional senseif a cop comes up to me, they are a cop. they represent the government and are therefor an extension of that. they can be nice and smiling all they want, but in the end they are still a government employeealso, im a member of the US army (as a reservist) and while there are a few i have met who have truly felt the call of duty and pride associated with their work, they are few and far between. seems like most of them are just there for the pay check and could give two ****s honestly (at least what i have seen, maybe thats the reason behind my resentment for anything government related, the bureaucracy and inefficiency involved irritates me, especially when advancement based on merit takes a back seat to supposed tenure)

Aaahhhh, now I understand..,

 

[dakota port]

i've encountered 1 cop once in canton and another cop 3 times in the past, 1 time someone called in saying i was carrying while looking at a car for sale and then he wrote my tag down and the cops came to my house 30 minutes later, it all turned out fine after i showed my permits. the other 2 times were car accidents while i was carrying and each time i was respected

maybe not all cops are good but canton seems to have good ones but were alos not exactly crime central either

 

[chucklenut]

Aaahhhh, now I understand..,

lol maybe its my fault for going signal corps and the reserves

 

[StateLine]

I wasn't going to let myself get pulled into this thread but I guess I'm just a sucker for verbal abuse. The reality is, some people have their minds made up about police and nothing is going to change it. People with the most negative things to say about law enforcement remind me of anti-gun activists. It is inevitably the people who know the least about a subject that have the strongest opinions on the topic.

1. If you've had an unpleasant run in with a cop, obviously all cops are assholes.
2. If you've had several unpleasant run ins with cops, obviously all cops are assholes and are just singling you out for no reason.
3. Next to professional sports, law enforcement is THE MOST second-guessed and Monday morning quarterbacked job in the world. People who have little understanding of the laws and the courts are the first ones to chirp their opinions on the topic and opine on how things SHOULD be. Pretty much everyone is an expert on how cops should do their jobs and have no qualms about tossing in their .02 cents.
4. When I was a cop, I wasn't a public servant. I was a public official. I was a lawfully designated representative of a duly elected Sheriff. As such, I had powers and authority that were not delegated to most citizens. Many people seem to resent this, regardless of how diplomatically a LEO exercises that authority. Many people simply have a problem with authority no matter how lawful that authority may be.

EXAMPLE: A cop car is sitting in the median.
EXPERT OPINION: That lazy cop is just sitting there running radar, trying to hassle people and generate revenue by writing pointless speeding tickets.
REALITY: He may be running radar. Or maybe, just maybe, there was a crime committed. And just maybe there is a suspect vehicle description. And JUST MAYBE this cop understands that getting a good vantage point where he can see traffic passing by may help him to apprehend this suspect and make the community a little safer.
SOLUTION: Don't assume. You don't know.

EXAMPLE: A cop is short and terse during a traffic stop
EXPERT OPINION: All cops are assholes. This cop is obviously on a power trip. He was probably bullied in school and now he's getting payback by being rude to the public.
REALITY: It is relentlessly drilled into all cops' heads that traffic stops are incredibly dangerous. There are a vast array of unknown factors in every stop. That officer doesn't know you. He doesn't automatically know if you're on your way home from a PTA meeting or a triple homicide. This is why MOST cops support and appreciate licensed concealed carry. If I see a CWP, I automatically understand that I'm dealing with one of the "good guys"
SOLUTION: Instead of being argumentative, do everything you can to put the officer at ease. Turn on your interior light, TURN DOWN your radio, keep your hands in sight, and be polite. If you just read the previous sentence and thought to yourself "That's BS, I'm not kissing anybody's ass just because they have a badge" then YOU are the problem, not the cops. Keep in mind that criminals and contraband inevitably end up on the highway. Many major criminal cases are made based on traffic related incidents. You may or may not get a ticket, but the sooner you can convey to the LEO that you're not a felon, the sooner you'll be on your way. Its his job to be suspicious. Its his job to root out criminals. Act like the responsible gun owning citizen that you are and put his mind at ease.

EXAMPLE: A cop car speeds past you without his emergency equipment activated.
EXPERT OPINION: They just lit up the "Hot Donuts Now" sign at Krispy Kreme. Stupid cops think they are above the law and can just speed anywhere they want to. Meanwhile, I just got my 3rd speeding ticket in 2 years. Its not fair. Waaaaah.
REALITY: Many states have statutes that specifically allow police officers to violate traffic laws when responding to calls. They generally also prohibit any actions that create unnecessary danger or a "depraved indifference" to public safety. There are also laws that specifically allow police to respond to calls without using emergency equipment if that would tend to alert the suspect and allow him to flee or otherwise endanger the public.
SOLUTION: Understand that when cops are dispatched to "in progress" calls, they are usually in a hurry to get there and do their jobs. These calls do not always constitute an emergency justifying a lights and siren response. However, put yourself in the shoes of the caller. If you call to report a suspicious vehicle parked at the end of your street, do you want the cops to get there quickly? Of course. Does this call automatically dictate an emergency response? Of course not.

These are just a hand full of examples that I've encountered over the years. I'm sure if I thought about it, I could think of many more. I know there will probably be plenty of responses calling me out for whatever reason. Here's the thing, its not my job anymore, so I really don't care if someone agrees with me or not. I don't have to be diplomatic about my opinion anymore. I no longer have to worry that something I post on an online forum may result in a complaint affecting me professionally. Based on my personal, first hand experience the people who have the biggest problems with police in general are either petty criminals or anti-social dickwads. Either way, they don't matter one bit to me. In fact, part of the reason why I decided to get out of law enforcement was the constant scrutiny and second guessing by the armchair experts. After a while, its just not worth it anymore. Boston was a perfect example. If the cops go door to door searching for a dangerous suspect, they are Constitution-trampling jackbooted thugs. If they let the residents try to apprehend the suspect themselves they are lazy cowards. I've heard plenty of criticism about the way the Boston police handled the bombing aftermath but I have not read or heard a single plan for a viable alternative approach. Like I said, everyone's an expert.

P.S. I didn't really address the OP. Open carrying in populated areas is just attention whoring. Either you are trying to show to everyone that you "have the power" or you are intentionally trying to bait law enforcement into some sort of Constitutional tug of war. It also demonstrates that you are just another lug-nut with a gun. A person truly concerned with training, tactics, and self defense is not going to surrender their most powerful ally...the element of surprise. I don't want ANYONE to know I'm carrying until it is too late for them to do anything about it. Otherwise its a good way to get popped in the back of the head right before the robbery goes down. Uniformed personnel carry their sidearms in holsters designed for retention. In addition, they undergo hands on training and tactics in weapons retention. A person open carrying a pistol in an open topped Kydex belt holster is just a gun grab looking for a place to happen.

FLAME ON!!!

 

[Hasselhoss]

Why are you hanging out at places where X and pot are being used? How would you know it was bribes unless you were involved ? Drinking and driving is not against the law....only driving under the influence is.

Having an open container in the passenger area of a motor vehicle is punishable by a $200 fine.

 

[chucklenut]

@stateline-not a bad post. ill agree with most of it, my issue is not with the individual cop, but with how police are used by the powers at be in this country

so its not the individual, its how the "system" is run and how alot of the time the checks and balances that are suppose to be in place dont always go swimmingly (Ie accountability seems limited alot of the time). that being said dekalb and clayton county PD can go to hell, i dont know what it is with these two departments but i would like to think that having police around is a good thing, but not when it comes to those two

also, i think the problem i have with police in traffic stops is traffic stops=ticket. like everytime. why should i be nice, they stopped me? ill be as respectful as i would be to a county clerk trying to **** me on paying a fine (Thats assuming im not speeding or driving crazy, which i dont do. i only get tickets when a light on my car goes out and i dont realize it. do i get a warning....nope)

 

[Ken Ford]

Having an open container in the passenger area of a motor vehicle is punishable by a $200 fine.

That's a different law than drinking and driving. You can drink a little (if over 21) and still not be against the law.

 

[chucklenut]

That's a different law than drinking and driving. You can drink a little (if over 21) and still not be against the law.

what is the limit .08?

i feel like admitting to having just one drink to a cop is a terrible decision on that note though.

 

[Hasselhoss]

That's a different law than drinking and driving. You can drink a little (if over 21) and still not be against the law.

exactly. However, I was simply replying to the statement that "drinking and driving are not against the law". While not as serious, it's still illegal. In fact, the way I read it the passenger in the vehicle can be fined for it if it is in their possession.