Help me figure out this Background Check Bill

[oldmetlfan]

The worst thing I see in the bill as it is now, is that it creates a registry of guns, albeit at the dealer level.
Each gun would be written into the ffl's log, and then out, showing who purchased it.
After 5 or 10 years if they go around and collect all that paperwork, they now have a pretty sizeable list of who has what.

Total crap.

 

[motorhead]

These COMMUNIST'S make me absolutley wanna puke. My e-mail to Isakson said (2 month's ago) "If you'll vote for the prez's tax hikes , you'll vote for his gun control". I can read these pol's like a s***house book, And i'll be danged if he isn't dancing withem!! We get what we vote for

 

[a__l__a__n]

Question: Under this law... Suppose I arrange to sell or trade through the classified ads on this forum. The buyer has a GWL. We meet in a parking lot, he shows me the GWL, and we complete the transaction with no paperwork. Are we legal?

Or, does the transaction still have to occur at a FFL dealer?

 

[cullyhog]

The NRA has tons of lawyers on staff. They would probably be happy to give you a ruling at no charge. Especially to a site this large that contains many NRA members.

 

[sinac84]

Are GWL holders subject to the same background check for a gun purchase as a non-GWL at a LGS with this new bill or would it be the same as now, just fill out the paperwork, show them the GWL and pay?

 

[spencer60]

Are GWL holders subject to the same background check for a gun purchase as a non-GWL at a LGS with this new bill or would it be the same as now, just fill out the paperwork, show them the GWL and pay?

Looks like that's the case.

One thing the old Schumer bill had in it that I haven't seen is the requirement that the FFL take the firearm into their own inventory before running a check.

That meant that if anything went wrong (buyer backed out) you would have to buy your own gun back, pay sales tax on it, and get a background check yourself.

- - - Updated - - -

Question: Under this law... Suppose I arrange to sell or trade through the classified ads on this forum. The buyer has a GWL. We meet in a parking lot, he shows me the GWL, and we complete the transaction with no paperwork. Are we legal?

Or, does the transaction still have to occur at a FFL dealer?

It looks like you still need a 4473 to be filled out, just like a retail sale.

 

[Cobalt 60]

I feel pretty sure this is going to pass the Senate. Our only hope is that it dies in the House. Time to quit worrying about the Senate and go ahead full bore with your House Members.

 

[spencer60]

Just found the submitted bill text here (http://beta.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/649/text) and was looking through it.

One thing that jumped out is that it's still Schumer's bill. The way they redefine 'transfer' is a dead give-away.

For example;

(D) a temporary transfer of possession without transfer
of title made in connection with lawful hunting or sporting
purposes if the transfer occurs--

``(i) at a shooting range located in or on premises
owned or occupied by a duly incorporated organization
organized for conservation purposes or to foster
proficiency in firearms and the firearm is, at all
times, kept within the premises of the shooting range;

Well, not all ranges are actually corporations, but this probably does cover the majority...


``(ii) at a target firearm shooting competition
under the auspices of or approved by a State agency or
nonprofit organization and the firearm is, at all
times, kept within the premises of the shooting
competition;

Hmmm... since IDPA, GSSF, and your local bowling-pin shoot are all run by for-profit organizations, letting someone borrow (or simple hold) your gun there is a felony 'transfer'.


Last but not least there's this gem...

``(C) a temporary transfer of possession that occurs
between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee,
if--
``(i) the temporary transfer of possession occurs
in the home or curtilage of the unlicensed transferor;
``(ii) the firearm is not removed from that home or
curtilage during the temporary transfer; and
``(iii) the transfer has a duration of less than 7
days


I looked up 'curtilage', and the first definition I found was heartening, since basically it means your property around your house. Then I looked it up in a legal sense, and found that isn't the case at all.

The U.S. Supreme Court noted in United States v. Dunn, 480 U.S. 294 (1987), that curtilage is the area immediately surrounding a residence that "harbors the `intimate activity associated with the sanctity of a man's home and the privacies of life.'
- excerpt from the U.S. Legal Forum

Turns out that just because it's your property doesn't make it 'curtilage'. Things like how close to the house, whether it's fenced, whether you use it regularly all come into play.

So, you have some property and set up a little unfenced range area on the 'back-40'. You don't get out there much, but a friend stops by and you head out and do some shooting. In the course of things you swap guns a few times.

Yup, you guessed it, you are now both felons depending on how a judge rules on whether your own private property counted as 'curtilage' (and in this case it probably wouldn't).

I know folks will say that this would never be enforced.

BS.

People get caught up in these screwy laws all the time. Sometimes you read it in the news, but often not. And since the average cost to defend yourself from a felony criminal charge is around $100,000 these days, do you really want this kind of thing hanging over your head?

Oh, and you don't need to have 'curtilage' to be a felon. That item about the transfer not lasting more than 7 days is a ringer too.

Say you go on vacation and ask a non-relative to house-sit for you. If you are gone 7 days and a second, both you and the housesitter are now felons. Someone breaks in on day 8 and steals your guns, the cops could easily charge you both with a felony transfer.

It also gets rid of the language that says if they don't get back a negative report on you within 5 days of submitting to a NICs check, you are assumed to have passed and it's a legal transfer.

This was put in place to keep them from simply making sure the NICs system always ran 200 days behind and effectively banning firearms purchases. Kind of what they do with NFA items now.

All in all, this bill is the same BS 'Chucky' Schumer, the illustrious Senator from New York tried to push through. They just added a totally useless 'exemption' that would almost never come into play.

The whole 'is it a first step to registration?' question aside, it's bad law that ignores due-process, private property and will turn thousands of otherwise innocent people into felons every year.

This isn't something we can just 'live with'... it needs to be fought.

 

[spencer60]

Oh yeah.. have your firearm stolen? Better report it within 24 hours or you're a felon.

 

[squirrelslaying101]

They do thos BS so NOBODY CAN UNDETSTAND anythong.. even up for interpitation for them.:thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown: