ATF new “rule” for no firearm Transaction without background check

[spencer60]

yeah I was kinda joking about it. They want anyone selling a gun for a profit to be an FFL but won't make it any easier for anyone to actually be an FFL.

either way this one will get shot down by the courts shortly as well.

I doubt this will get shot down in court honestly.

The 'Bipartisan Safer Communities Act' that GOPers let through changed the wording in the law.

ATF says they are just codifying what was passed by Congress and after reading it, they aren't wrong. Congress gave them just what they wanted to expand the definition of 'in the business'.

They are probably on pretty solid legal ground as far as the whole rule goes, although some of the details may get knocked down in court for being too vague...eventually. But that's a long way down the road.

 

[BIKER13]

so we cant sail guns at the odt gun show?

 

[HERMET]

The really grey definition of a seller also makes it appear that bartering or trading for services is also covered as a sale.

That was my interpretation as well.
They keep things vague enough so that they can make up and enforce rules as they go along. Easier to target the deplorables that way.
Something has seriously went wrong in this country and there's no way to turn it around I'm afraid.

 

[spencer60]

The really grey definition of a seller also makes it appear that bartering or trading for services is also covered as a sale.

Yup, exchange of anything, even illegal drugs is called a sale.

 

[BIKER13]

Yup, exchange of anything, even illegal drugs is called a sale.

so any transactions done in the future on the site will be described as a sale? **** that, NO MORE FEED BACK

 

[spencer60]

Here's one fun fact...

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The Department disagrees with the comments arguing that a firearm’s condition—or the fact that a firearm is in, or sold with, original packaging that contains manufacturer instructions and other useful items—is an arbitrary basis for a rebuttable presumption.

Persons who are engaged in the business of dealing in firearms often desire firearms that are in either a new condition, or a nearly new condition, accompanied by original packaging so they can command the highest price while quickly attracting buyers in the shortest amount of time.

Moreover, purchasers of deadly, explosive-based weapons are more likely to trust the safety and reliability of new, factory-tested firearms, rather than used firearms in a lesser condition.

Nonetheless, in response to comments regarding the presumptions that a person is engaged in the business if they repetitively resell or offer for resale new or like-new firearms, or firearms that are of the same or similar kind and type, the Department has revised those presumptions to apply only where the resales or offers for resale occurs within one year from the date of purchase (also referred to in this rule as a “turnover” limitation) to reduce the chance that personal collection firearms might fall within either of these presumptions.

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So... all you flippers have to hold onto a gun for ONE YEAR now before getting rid of it, otherwise there will be a 'presumption' you are an 'unlicensed dealer'.

That's probably true for most flippers, but I think it will impact a lot of normal folks as well. Sell more than one gun a year (so you are 'repetitive') that's still in the box and the ATF will 'presume' you are an unlicensed dealer.

 

[BIKER13]

yeah ask for a ****in BOS now! what bull ****

 

[Ken Ford]

so any transactions done in the future on the site will be described as a sale? **** that, NO MORE FEED BACK

I doubt I ever made a profit, or could be even in the biggest stretch, be in the “buisness” of selling guns. As the vast majority here are not. There are a few that skate dangerously close to the line now, I’d imagine they would be the targets of this law.

 

[BIKER13]

I doubt I ever made a profit, or could be even in the biggest stretch, be in the “buisness” of selling guns. As the vast majority here are not. There are a few that skate dangerously close to the line now, I’d imagine they would be the targets of this law.

they gonna find somebody to **** with

 

[Spas-12 Owner]

so we cant sail guns at the odt gun show?

We can do w/e we want, there will just be consequences.

Also, some 30 day rule and ODT show is closer then 30 days.