Is an AR lower a Rifle or a Part?

[19 Kilo]

If I'm shopping for a lower of any type, I look at the firearms sections of any website. Not the parts section. As anyone can order parts, but it must go through an FFL to order a lower. So I've been conditioned, for lack of a better term to shop for lowers this way. A complete lower with a rifle stock I'd look in the rifle section. A complete pistol lower would be in the pistol section. A stripped lower would be listed in the AR section of both.

Bingo!

 

[TBurnham]

a firearm is a piece that you can load and fire.
Anything less than that is a part or component.
Lowers, uppers, stripped, complete are not guns,
they are components or parts of a gun imo

this!!!

 

[Okuma]

Webster/Wikipedia can't lock your butt up for a minimum year sentence because of the definition of "GUN". You ain't Bill Clinton and that argument won't fly when you try to defend yourself.

The AR/AK (black rifle) section might not be a bad idea. It's your football, in the end it's up to you no matter if it's right or wrong.

We don't sell these items, we just allow people to list them. All I want to know is where is the best place to list them to make them easy to find. No matter what it is the buyer's and seller's responsibility to make sure all laws are followed.

People are acting like if lowers are in parts then someone will accidentally buy one. If a buyer or a seller isn't going to obey laws then it doesn't really matter where it is listed.

 

[19 Kilo]

We don't sell these items, we just allow people to list them. All I want to know is where is the best place to list them to make them easy to find. No matter what it is the buyer's and seller's responsibility to make sure all laws are followed.

People are acting like if lowers are in parts then someone will accidentally buy one. If a buyer or a seller isn't going to obey laws then it doesn't really matter where it is listed.

You tell that to the the court when some guy with more money than brains buys a lower and does something stupid. This thread is living proof that there are plenty of people with more means that smarts when it comes to the firearms industry.

By reading this it sounds like you already have your mind made up anyway, just make the rule and own it.

 

[Okuma]

You tell that to the the court when some guy with more money than brains buys a lower and does something stupid. This thread is living proof that there are plenty of people with more means that smarts when it comes to the firearms industry.

By reading this it sounds like you already have your mind made up anyway, just make the rule and own it.

The reason people like this site is because it isn't "my way or the highway," I ask for people's input to make it better, so don't tell me to make a rule and own it. You are right, I do have my mind made up, I'm going to do what people vote for.

Your hypothetical scenarios are stupid. "You tell that to the the court when some guy with more money than brains buys a lower and does something stupid." So if I tell them it was listed in parts I'm in trouble, but if it was listed in rifles I'm not in trouble? What if it was listed in sporting goods on craigslist, what then?

"This thread is living proof that there are plenty of people with more means that smarts when it comes to the firearms industry."

What this thread is living proof of is that about half the users classify an AR lower as a part and the other half classify it as a firearm. No one is saying they do not understand how they are classified by the government, they are just saying what they personally classify it as.

I consider it a part because if I buy a lower and pull the trigger, nothing is going to go bang.

I wish you would stop taking everything to the extremes and just understand this is ultimately just a place to list classifieds and talk about stuff. All I'm trying to do is make it easy to list and find items without having dozens of sub-categories for everything. If a majority votes that they want them listed in parts then that's where they will go, if a majority votes that they want them in rifles, then thats where they will go. Simple as that.

 

[wood45s]

i think ar lowers and encore frames and other similar should be in the rifle section. same for barrel assemblies. that's where i would expect to find them. they are such major compenents and so much more interchangable than parts from other firearms -
others meaning for example
barrels for bolt guns
trigger parts
stocks/grips
sights
maybe if it's a stripped frame, it could be in parts. but complete loweres, i think, would fit well in the rifle category.

 

[19 Kilo]

The reason people like this site is because it isn't "my way or the highway," I ask for people's input to make it better, so don't tell me to make a rule and own it. You are right, I do have my mind made up, I'm going to do what people vote for.

Your hypothetical scenarios are stupid. "You tell that to the the court when some guy with more money than brains buys a lower and does something stupid." So if I tell them it was listed in parts I'm in trouble, but if it was listed in rifles I'm not in trouble? What if it was listed in sporting goods on craigslist, what then?

"This thread is living proof that there are plenty of people with more means that smarts when it comes to the firearms industry."

What this thread is living proof of is that about half the users classify an AR lower as a part and the other half classify it as a firearm. No one is saying they do not understand how they are classified by the government, they are just saying what they personally classify it as.

I consider it a part because if I buy a lower and pull the trigger, nothing is going to go bang.

I wish you would stop taking everything to the extremes and just understand this is ultimately just a place to list classifieds and talk about stuff. All I'm trying to do is make it easy to list and find items without having dozens of sub-categories for everything. If a majority votes that they want them listed in parts then that's where they will go, if a majority votes that they want them in rifles, then thats where they will go. Simple as that.

Sounds like a nerve has been hit. Is it because your poll shows that most people think like the folks you disagree with?

BTW... over 70% consider a lower a firearm, 29.5% a part, the rest say list it in accessories.

You should ask Adventure Outdoors about stupid scenarios. Just ask how stupid it was for them to spend thousands of dollars to defend themselves from an guy that was looking for a fight that he knew he wouldn't win. The goal was to make them spend tons of money, not to win a court battle. My point is that listing an obvious firearm in a forum that's not for firearms is not a smart thing to do.

Craig's list will remove any firearm from their list as soon as they can because they are scared of the sue happy fools out there as you should be (I hate that fact with a passion because it shows the "You owe me" thought pattern of today).

As for the extremes, there is no gray area in life. There is right and wrong and that's it. This forum is fun for me, just as it is for many other people, I've been trading guns and talking guns since before Al Gore invented the Internet and the forum craze ever took over. I've used guns in anger for what this country stands for and I've logged may hours doing what I do here. I understand fully what it takes to manage a forum. So far you've done a pretty good job, but if my picking a side and sticking with it bothers you that's something you'll have to live with. I will not change my views. I don't agree with you or your mods on more than one point here, but so what.

My "stupid hypothetical scenarios" are carried out every day across this nation. Maybe you need to ask yourself if it is stupid to think that it can never happen to you.

 

[Okuma]

Sounds like a nerve has been hit. Is it because your poll shows that most people think like the folks you disagree with?

BTW... over 70% consider a lower a firearm, 29.5% a part, the rest say list it in accessories.

You should ask Adventure Outdoors about stupid scenarios. Just ask how stupid it was for them to spend thousands of dollars to defend themselves from an guy that was looking for a fight that he knew he wouldn't win. The goal was to make them spend tons of money, not to win a court battle. My point is that listing an obvious firearm in a forum that's not for firearms is not a smart thing to do.

Craig's list will remove any firearm from their list as soon as they can because they are scared of the sue happy fools out there as you should be (I hate that fact with a passion because it shows the "You owe me" thought pattern of today).

As for the extremes, there is no gray area in life. There is right and wrong and that's it. This forum is fun for me, just as it is for many other people, I've been trading guns and talking guns since before Al Gore invented the Internet and the forum craze ever took over. I've used guns in anger for what this country stands for and I've logged may hours doing what I do here. I understand fully what it takes to manage a forum. So far you've done a pretty good job, but if my picking a side and sticking with it bothers you that's something you'll have to live with. I will not change my views. I don't agree with you or your mods on more than one point here, but so what.

My "stupid hypothetical scenarios" are carried out every day across this nation. Maybe you need to ask yourself if it is stupid to think that it can never happen to you.

If I had a problem with the outcome I would never have posted a poll. I could also very easily rig it if I really cared that much. The goal of putting the poll up was to see what people preferred, why would it hit a nerve when whatever the outcome is, it makes the site better?

"Maybe you need to ask yourself if it is stupid to think that it can never happen to you."

When exactly did I say "it can never happen to me?" I just choose to not always expect the worst case scenario in life, what's the point of life if you are constantly expecting the worst?

"there is no gray area in life," "keeping with the law and not peoples opinion will always be the best solution"

If anything hits a nerve it is comments like these two, completely ridiculous over simplifications. Life is one big gray area and is full of compromise, most situations have much more than two options to choose from. And if we kept with the law and not people's opinions our country would be called England.

 

[Dynamis]

Even though they are 2 of the largest online retailers in the firearms industry, I am going to send Midway and Brownells an email and tell them they have it all wrong.

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[19 Kilo]

"If anything hits a nerve it is comments like these two, completely ridiculous over simplifications. Life is one big gray area and is full of compromise, most situations have much more than two options to choose from. And if we kept with the law and not people's opinions our country would be called England."

What's ridiculous is the fact that you live in live in a Gray area, you're part of the problem. Too many people want to stay in the "feel good" place and not take a stand for something. This "Republic" was started and meant to be all about Law and not about public opinion. When things are governed by public opinion you no longer have a Republic, you have a Democracy. That's a far cry from the way England does it, but this is getting way off topic.

What this thread/poll looks like to me is an attempt to vindicate an opinion. The poll already shows the way the majority of the users are used to seeing forums displayed. This reminds me of our current government, take a poll and try to get it to show what you want. If it doesn't, claim it was only for everyone's own good and find someone or something to target in order to take attention of of the real topic.
The other way this reminds me of our current political situation is the way you have not backed up your side of the debate with any facts. You've only called my posts stupid or ridiculous turning a fact based debate into something fueled by emotion.

CCW, while I don't much agree with him, is the only person that has backed up his view with hard facts even if they are given in a sarcastic manor.

If anything, I'm sure there are plenty of users that have enjoyed reading this. I know I can't wait to read you next post.