Local Law Enforcement Using Military Equipment Questioned

[metaltrader]

Just another SUV - with tracks!
Nothing to see here. Move along, move along.

Now that's funny!

 

[wozbean]

I see what you are saying, but I don't think you understand that any LEO can become involved in a very violent encounter with a hard core criminal at any time without warning.

An average citizen can become involved in a violent encounter at anytime.

 

[Bear44]

Folks, this is the results of what happens when LE is under-gunned when the SHTF.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

 

[Bear44]

An average citizen can become involved in a violent encounter at anytime.

Absolutely! That's why we should be well armed also. Personally, if I find myself pinned down in a violent encounter and trying to stay alive, I will be waiting very impatiently for SWAT to show up in an APC and save my ass. But would probably be just as happy to see a couple of patrol officers roll up with M-4s that they already had in the car.

 

[wozbean]

I am also interested to find out what personal freedoms you have sacrificed because LE is better armed.

I think only SWAT should have an SUV with tracks. I have no issue with officers having select fire or full auto m16's. Or high cap mags. grenade launchers ? For launching tear gas ? if you need that call SWAT. Drones? yadda yadda yadda.

I think the general dispute is over the PARAMILITARIZATION of general law enforcement. I think there needs to be a clear line between beat-cops and SWAT.

 

[Ken Ford]

To be fair, that pic really is just an SUV with some extra plating... nothing you as an average citizen couldn't whip up perfectly legally in your garage. Just because it looks military, doesn't make it so. After all, that's what we're fighting the gun control industry about right now isn't it? There is a line that is constantly being drawn between how 'military' the police should be. Post 9/11 that line has shifted to the point where (supposedly) the NYPD has surface-to-air missiles at their disposal. To me that's probably too far, but you can certainly debate it. Certainly protective vehicles and gear, select-fire firearms, etc. all fit well within the scope of police activities. However I don't think that they should be limited to police only. If police are allowed a certain type of equipment, there is no reason that non-LE citizens should be denied that same piece of equipment. After all, police are simply regular citizens that we authorize to act on our behalf by granting them 'police powers'. They are citizens who have accepted extra duties, extra responsibilities and restrictions on their behavior, but that does not mean they have constitutional rights that are any different than other citizens. A police officers ability to have any type of weapon is based on their Second Amendment rights as a citizen, not on their additional duties as a police officer.

Well stated.

 

[Bear44]

I think only SWAT should have an SUV with tracks. I have no issue with officers having select fire or full auto m16's. Or high cap mags. grenade launchers ? For launching tear gas ? if you need that call SWAT. Drones? yadda yadda yadda.

I think the general dispute is over the PARAMILITARIZATION of general law enforcement. I think there needs to be a clear line between beat-cops and SWAT.

There is a clear line. I doubt there are many beat cops that have anything more than side arms, long arms in the car and vests for when they are needed. What's wrong with that?

 

[Bear44]

Has anyone here ever seen a beat cop on general patrol fitted out with SWAT type clothing or equipment? The most I have ever seen was a LE uniform, utility belt with side arm and I suspect some of them are wearing body armor under the uniform.

 

[Ken Ford]

I think only SWAT should have an SUV with tracks. I have no issue with officers having select fire or full auto m16's. Or high cap mags. grenade launchers ? For launching tear gas ? if you need that call SWAT. Drones? yadda yadda yadda.I think the general dispute is over the PARAMILITARIZATION of general law enforcement. I think there needs to be a clear line between beat-cops and SWAT.

You do know that SWAT is staffed from "beat cops" right?

 

[3rd Rail]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think we all want LEO to be properly outfitted to perform their duties.
And I really doubt anyone loses sleep over a PD acquiring some surplus military gear - even a tank or SUV. But that's just one piece of the puzzle.

Now look at some of the other pieces.

DiFi and other popular elected officials have a hard on to disarm the citizen. Even the prez has decided it's time to do something (post election).
Meanwhile agencies quietly stock up with the latest technologies and military gear every chance they get. Robots, drones, LEO only firearms, LEO only ammo.
Social Security Agency and other purchasing large quantities of ammo last year. (found that on the internet - may not be accurate)

Add all these pieces together and tell us what your puzzle looks like.

Finally for extra credit, can someone cite examples in history where have we seen the same trend and it ended well for the citizen?

Australia maybe?