If you want to have a discussion like grown men then we will. If you just want to be a smartass, then you can have this little debate if it makes you feel better.
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Question for LEOs and advocates
- Thread starter captdave77
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If you want to have a discussion like grown men then we will. If you just want to be a smartass, then you can have this little debate if it makes you feel better.
I wasn't going to let myself get pulled into this thread but I guess I'm just a sucker for verbal abuse. The reality is, some people have their minds made up about police and nothing is going to change it. People with the most negative things to say about law enforcement remind me of anti-gun activists. It is inevitably the people who know the least about a subject that have the strongest opinions on the topic.
1. If you've had an unpleasant run in with a cop, obviously all cops are assholes.
2. If you've had several unpleasant run ins with cops, obviously all cops are assholes and are just singling you out for no reason.
3. Next to professional sports, law enforcement is THE MOST second-guessed and Monday morning quarterbacked job in the world. People who have little understanding of the laws and the courts are the first ones to chirp their opinions on the topic and opine on how things SHOULD be. Pretty much everyone is an expert on how cops should do their jobs and have no qualms about tossing in their .02 cents.
4. When I was a cop, I wasn't a public servant. I was a public official. I was a lawfully designated representative of a duly elected Sheriff. As such, I had powers and authority that were not delegated to most citizens. Many people seem to resent this, regardless of how diplomatically a LEO exercises that authority. Many people simply have a problem with authority no matter how lawful that authority may be.
EXAMPLE: A cop car is sitting in the median.
EXPERT OPINION: That lazy cop is just sitting there running radar, trying to hassle people and generate revenue by writing pointless speeding tickets.
REALITY: He may be running radar. Or maybe, just maybe, there was a crime committed. And just maybe there is a suspect vehicle description. And JUST MAYBE this cop understands that getting a good vantage point where he can see traffic passing by may help him to apprehend this suspect and make the community a little safer.
SOLUTION: Don't assume. You don't know.
EXAMPLE: A cop is short and terse during a traffic stop
EXPERT OPINION: All cops are assholes. This cop is obviously on a power trip. He was probably bullied in school and now he's getting payback by being rude to the public.
REALITY: It is relentlessly drilled into all cops' heads that traffic stops are incredibly dangerous. There are a vast array of unknown factors in every stop. That officer doesn't know you. He doesn't automatically know if you're on your way home from a PTA meeting or a triple homicide. This is why MOST cops support and appreciate licensed concealed carry. If I see a CWP, I automatically understand that I'm dealing with one of the "good guys"
SOLUTION: Instead of being argumentative, do everything you can to put the officer at ease. Turn on your interior light, TURN DOWN your radio, keep your hands in sight, and be polite. If you just read the previous sentence and thought to yourself "That's BS, I'm not kissing anybody's ass just because they have a badge" then YOU are the problem, not the cops. Keep in mind that criminals and contraband inevitably end up on the highway. Many major criminal cases are made based on traffic related incidents. You may or may not get a ticket, but the sooner you can convey to the LEO that you're not a felon, the sooner you'll be on your way. Its his job to be suspicious. Its his job to root out criminals. Act like the responsible gun owning citizen that you are and put his mind at ease.
EXAMPLE: A cop car speeds past you without his emergency equipment activated.
EXPERT OPINION: They just lit up the "Hot Donuts Now" sign at Krispy Kreme. Stupid cops think they are above the law and can just speed anywhere they want to. Meanwhile, I just got my 3rd speeding ticket in 2 years. Its not fair. Waaaaah.
REALITY: Many states have statutes that specifically allow police officers to violate traffic laws when responding to calls. They generally also prohibit any actions that create unnecessary danger or a "depraved indifference" to public safety. There are also laws that specifically allow police to respond to calls without using emergency equipment if that would tend to alert the suspect and allow him to flee or otherwise endanger the public.
SOLUTION: Understand that when cops are dispatched to "in progress" calls, they are usually in a hurry to get there and do their jobs. These calls do not always constitute an emergency justifying a lights and siren response. However, put yourself in the shoes of the caller. If you call to report a suspicious vehicle parked at the end of your street, do you want the cops to get there quickly? Of course. Does this call automatically dictate an emergency response? Of course not.
These are just a hand full of examples that I've encountered over the years. I'm sure if I thought about it, I could think of many more. I know there will probably be plenty of responses calling me out for whatever reason. Here's the thing, its not my job anymore, so I really don't care if someone agrees with me or not. I don't have to be diplomatic about my opinion anymore. I no longer have to worry that something I post on an online forum may result in a complaint affecting me professionally. Based on my personal, first hand experience the people who have the biggest problems with police in general are either petty criminals or anti-social dickwads. Either way, they don't matter one bit to me. In fact, part of the reason why I decided to get out of law enforcement was the constant scrutiny and second guessing by the armchair experts. After a while, its just not worth it anymore. Boston was a perfect example. If the cops go door to door searching for a dangerous suspect, they are Constitution-trampling jackbooted thugs. If they let the residents try to apprehend the suspect themselves they are lazy cowards. I've heard plenty of criticism about the way the Boston police handled the bombing aftermath but I have not read or heard a single plan for a viable alternative approach. Like I said, everyone's an expert.
P.S. I didn't really address the OP. Open carrying in populated areas is just attention whoring. Either you are trying to show to everyone that you "have the power" or you are intentionally trying to bait law enforcement into some sort of Constitutional tug of war. It also demonstrates that you are just another lug-nut with a gun. A person truly concerned with training, tactics, and self defense is not going to surrender their most powerful ally...the element of surprise. I don't want ANYONE to know I'm carrying until it is too late for them to do anything about it. Otherwise its a good way to get popped in the back of the head right before the robbery goes down. Uniformed personnel carry their sidearms in holsters designed for retention. In addition, they undergo hands on training and tactics in weapons retention. A person open carrying a pistol in an open topped Kydex belt holster is just a gun grab looking for a place to happen.
FLAME ON!!!
Best post in this whole dang thing!
Lol at the defending cops against stereotypes while in the same post assigning negative stereotypes to open carriers.
Nicely done.
Nicely done.
Who here was about to say, "cliff notes?" Just playin', man.
I am not having a debate or discussion with you, i made a very clear point and all you do is throw around ignorant remarks. I could give two ****s what some hypocrite thinks when he makes statements to justify his behavior. Furthermore, a traffic citation IS AN ARRESTABLE OFFENSE, are you sure you are a cop?
There are good cops is what I stated earlier. There are also cops that think the badge is an entitlement, your own words paint a picture.
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A traffic citation is an arrestable offense, but when is the last time you honestly saw someone get arrested for a simple speeding ticket? (give the exception that he's not running over 100mph) And what makes me hypocritical? I've never said I ever wrote a speeding ticket (I guess you assumed I have). Never wrote a single one in my whole life, have I stopped someone for speeding? absoulutely, wrote them a ticket for it? not yet. But also if I stop someone they were going at least 15 over and needed to be slowed down.
Cops are just a small portion of the population. If it was anywhere near the size of the the other prisons we'd be in deep ****.
I agree with you.
IRONY!
id rather not be subjected to questioning in the first place
honesty will go a long way, like all the way down town lol
